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Degenerative Disc Issues

gixxerjeff

gixxerjeff

Optimistic Underdog
Joined
Nov 17, 2008
Location
Santa Rosa
Moto(s)
Some fast ones and some dirty ones.
Name
Derp
So, as the saying goes: "If I knew I was gonna live this long, I would've taken better care of myself"
At 65, I feel like I'm crumbling from the inside out. After decades of wrenching on cars while beating myself up on motorcycles and sailboats I seem to have vibrated my spinal column into a fine powder.
I have arthritis all over the place. I also need a left knee and a right hip replacement. So far, I've been able to stave off surgery by exploiting the advances in brace technology, but this latest one is taking an unsavory toll. My entire right arm, from the shoulder to the finger tips is numb. It's the same sensation you get when you sit wonky and let your leg "fall asleep." This is becoming problematic as that arm is needed for throttle and braking duties. Some of my "fine touch" in terms of precise throttle and brake application are now more done by "rumor".
As my condition declines, I've developed the "real deal breaker". It now feels like someone stuck a screwdriver in my right shoulder blade and left it there.
It takes a tremendous amount to get me to reach out to my doctor....but I am officially "there". I got some prednisone injections that worked wonders for about 2 days. I asked for an acupuncture referral but they're booked out 6 months. I was then punted to Physical Therapy. I had my first appointment with them (for this concern) yesterday and call me impressed. I've had good luck with P/T folks before. In fact. my experience has been the fewer the credentials, the better the results. Of course, your mileage may vary.
Cervical Traction is my next step. I have two devices on order that are scheduled to arrive today. I confess I'm excited to get my hands on them. One is a devise that mounts to the top of a door, the other uses air bladders and a pump to lift your head from your shoulders.
I know Barf is getting old. Has anyone here been through this? I'm interested in knowing what lies ahead. I still ride every day, despite this obvious but hopefully temporary decline.
 
I haven't but I wish you the best in treatment and recovery.

Stupid ass discs. :x
 
I have been. In my late 30's - 40's. Damaged the sack of juice when I looped a wheelie at 22yo. Recovered because... young and athletic.

At mid 30's it started to give me the sciatica as the nerve started to get pinched. A couple of bouts with a pinched nerve had me being near crippled at times. Just kept exercising refusing the give up.

After one incident where I could not move and was in terrible pain I had a steroid injection that was a life savor.

I finally got serious about fixing it. The Dr. said he could operate, remove the disc and fuse the vertibraes. He said 90% chance of being all good, but it was possible that the nerve could remain impacted for.... ever.

"What else can I do Doc?"

The answer was exercise, stretch and take muscle relaxers, pain meds etc for a few years while my body does the deed itself. So kept at it. Iced. Used a Stem machine (worth its weight in gold) and avoided standing for long periods etc.

After 3 or so years all symptoms began to fade and at 45 I was doing pretty good again, but I was still and still am a bit more vulnerable to a pinched nerve.

I assume you are leaning towards letting the trained Pros cut ya. I get that, but it scared the shit out of me. I have seen plenty of folks make it successful though.

Like you arthritis is enjoying a growth period in all sorts of areas on my body. Left shoulder and wrist are the worst. Knee already replaced. Misc other parts are just starting to bloom. Right shoulder and elbow, upper back and neck.. left knee.. :facepalm

Oh well. I invest in all sort of Icy Hot, Bengay, Blue Emu, Bio Freeze, CBD stuff etc...

I just failed a MRI because I hate the fucking tube and have to get that done so I can do a cortisone shot in the shoulder. It would be nice to be a bit pain free for bit.

Certainly a shoulder replacement is not in the plan.

Good wishes Jeff. I feel your pain brother.
 
No issues.... yet, but I can tell my lower back is gonna be a problem eventually. It gets stiff after a day on my feet and extra sore if I am not super careful lifting things. I am pretty sure there is a slipped disc down there somewhere. The result of a rather impressive MTB crash 5 years or so back. Most days I wake up with it feeling fine so a little soreness at the end of the day is expected. I try to give myself chances to sit while I'm working when possible.
 
Thank you, Bud.
A lot of good info here.
And, FWIW, I am in NO hurry to let them cut on me or fuse me. That notion merely pegs my "what if" meter.
Exercise, medication and patience is the current plan.
 
+++100% for exercise, start at a good PT to be covered. Pay cash for acupuncture but find a good one. Find a hands on practitioner whatever their letters, you live where the best of the best live. My family members have been through this, I’ve been luckyish since a bike accident many years ago.
A head weighs 12 lbs or so. Devices that don’t fight gravity are better. There are several home cervical and lumbar traction unit designs. The over the door one has to be done seated, but the same Folks make a connector that slides between or under the mattress to be done lying down. Also can use weighed sand cuz water is more difficult. Eat well, rest well, love well give yourself some dedicated time to become well and accept help even if it costs you $. Best of healing to you.
 
gixxerjeff said:
Thank you, Bud.
A lot of good info here.
And, FWIW, I am in NO hurry to let them cut on me or fuse me. That notion merely pegs my "what if" meter.
Exercise, medication and patience is the current plan.
Click to expand...
Jeez Jeff, you're a rolling wreck! :afm199
 
So, I'm a big believer that "motion is lotion" and "we don't stop moving because we get old, we get old because we stop moving." Granted, it's easier for me to say that at 47 than it is for someone else to say at 65. However, I do have some non scientific personal experience that supports those ideas. My legs below the knee are "sub optimal" since birth. I have arthritis in both ankles and limited range of motion in both. For most of my life I accepted that they we just fucked and there wasn't much I could do but endure it.

Well, when I turned 40, I made some changes and these days I do more on my legs than I ever did in my 30's or 20's. Things have actually gotten better. My ankles are still arthritic but, my feet and claves are stronger than they ever have been and even though I'm still uncomfortable sometimes, most of my chronic ankle pain is gone. It sure seems like the more I move, the better things get.

If you want my bro science prescription, its time in the pool, corrective exercises that look mostly like PT, hang from a bar, and lying on the floor and moving every joint you can with as much range of motion as you can for as long as you can as frequently as you can. All of that has made my body feel more functional and stronger than it has ever felt. Consistent movement at whatever intensity you can handle done with as much resistance as you can manage makes a difference. I focus on what hurts me, its my ankles, my hips, and the kyphosis in my mid spine, and I make those areas do things they don't "want" to do. It can suck for a while and It can feel like nothing is changing or getting better for a while. The work I do in those areas doesn't look impressive or difficult or even like it makes sense but, making myself move in ways it wouldn't unless I do it deliberately has been a game changer. Spending 45 minutes or an hour just exploring the range of motion you have over your entire body, finding where you can't move and then working on those area smartly (there it s ton of physical therapy content on youtube, I have found great movements and exercises there) will make a difference IMHO.

Yoga, Tai Chi, Swimming, calisthenics and moving some mass around are all ways you can probably improve your situation.

For me the head change came first. I hade to believe the work was worth dong to start doing it. It sounds like you are there already. Fuck yea. Dive in and experiment. Some pain will probably still be involved but "good pain" is what we are after. Think about the long term. Find movements you enjoy doing every day and fuckin go for it. I think being a stubborn, irascible prick when confronted has helped me push back on father time a bit. If not, at least I haven't crumbled without a fight. Give it hell Jeff.
 
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I have similar issues from a bad mtn bike crash in college. One thing that absolutely blew me away that helped was wearing a heavy backpack. My neck did its thing right before a rather large and important field week. We had to hike 16 miles down Piru Creek with no trail and carrying a lot of survey gear. My whole left arm was numb and I was not a happy camper. But after a couple of miles, the heavy pack stretched out my neck and relieved the pressure.

I am certainly not advocating for hiking 16 miles down a creek, but maybe load up a pack and see if it helps.
IMG_20180417_092200.jpg
IMG_20180417_082557.jpg
 
Narrowing spinal canal + bulging L4 = occasionally walking bent for a few minutes until things loosen up. I'm avoiding surgery as long as possible but it's on the horizon.

Also, I'm terribly afraid the seating position of the Road King may exacerbate the discomfort. My job is somewhat physically demanding so I'm never sure if it's a random bad back day or if it really does bother me.
I'm probably going to Twaine Hart this weekend and I might take that to see how I feel.
 
mean dad said:
Narrowing spinal canal + bulging L4 = occasionally walking bent for a few minutes until things loosen up. I'm avoiding surgery as long as possible but it's on the horizon.

Also, I'm terribly afraid the seating position of the Road King may exacerbate the discomfort. My job is somewhat physically demanding so I'm never sure if it's a random bad back day or if it really does bother me.
I'm probably going to Twaine Hart this weekend and I might take that to see how I feel.
Click to expand...
My mom had he spine "roto-routered" for a narrowing spinal canal with excellent results. about 6 months of suck and a back brace but, after that her pain has been much less.
 
budman said:
I have been. In my late 30's - 40's. Damaged the sack of juice when I looped a wheelie at 22yo. Recovered because... young and athletic.

At mid 30's it started to give me the sciatica as the nerve started to get pinched. A couple of bouts with a pinched nerve had me being near crippled at times. Just kept exercising refusing the give up.

After one incident where I could not move and was in terrible pain I had a steroid injection that was a life savor.

I finally got serious about fixing it. The Dr. said he could operate, remove the disc and fuse the vertibraes. He said 90% chance of being all good, but it was possible that the nerve could remain impacted for.... ever.

"What else can I do Doc?"

The answer was exercise, stretch and take muscle relaxers, pain meds etc for a few years while my body does the deed itself. So kept at it. Iced. Used a Stem machine (worth its weight in gold) and avoided standing for long periods etc.

After 3 or so years all symptoms began to fade and at 45 I was doing pretty good again, but I was still and still am a bit more vulnerable to a pinched nerve.

I assume you are leaning towards letting the trained Pros cut ya. I get that, but it scared the shit out of me. I have seen plenty of folks make it successful though.

Like you arthritis is enjoying a growth period in all sorts of areas on my body. Left shoulder and wrist are the worst. Knee already replaced. Misc other parts are just starting to bloom. Right shoulder and elbow, upper back and neck.. left knee.. :facepalm

Oh well. I invest in all sort of Icy Hot, Bengay, Blue Emu, Bio Freeze, CBD stuff etc...

I just failed a MRI because I hate the fucking tube and have to get that done so I can do a cortisone shot in the shoulder. It would be nice to be a bit pain free for bit.

Certainly a shoulder replacement is not in the plan.

Good wishes Jeff. I feel your pain brother.
Click to expand...

What is this? "Used a Stem machine (worth its weight in gold)"

I need a new hip, have arthritis and experience low back issues - A dose of Meloxicam helps quite bit but I would rather not have to take it daily
 
easy wind said:
+++100% for exercise, start at a good PT to be covered. Pay cash for acupuncture but find a good one. Find a hands on practitioner whatever their letters, you live where the best of the best live. My family members have been through this, I’ve been luckyish since a bike accident many years ago.
A head weighs 12 lbs or so. Devices that don’t fight gravity are better. There are several home cervical and lumbar traction unit designs. The over the door one has to be done seated, but the same Folks make a connector that slides between or under the mattress to be done lying down. Also can use weighed sand cuz water is more difficult. Eat well, rest well, love well give yourself some dedicated time to become well and accept help even if it costs you $. Best of healing to you.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this.
I'll be looking into the "bed stretcher" immediately.
 
Motion is lotion is great!

Reduce or eliminate carbs to lower inflammation which will reduce arthritic pains
 
I used to have painful back problems when I was in my fifties. Got an MRI that showed disk compression and bulging. After some physical therapy, I changed how I lifted things and moved. Today I am pain free at 74. And fortunately I don’t have any arthritis.
 
Sorry to hear about all your pain from your muscular skeletal issues. Acupuncture can help a bit, but IMO it just isn't strong enough for major joint problems. Also, it doesn't fix the core issue, with is alignment problems due to dysfunctional muscle usage patterns and fascial/scar tissue buildup.

Physical therapy is absolutely the first step, and you'll want to do that pretty religiously until you regain basic capability. Then at some point thereafter, you'll want to start a movement practice - specifically, Tai Chi or Yoga. I can highly recommend "Yoga for back care" classes which are extremely gentle and alignment/therapeutic focused. This guy is quite good but probably not convenient for your location, you'll want to find someone like him that is close by. Stay away from the regular Yoga classes, you will injure yourself further. Once you get to this point, you can also probably start to receive chiropractic adjustments, but you'll want to be very careful about finding a good one. It's unfortunate that Chiro is more art than science, and largely relies on your Chiro having "good hands"; many do not.

With a lot of work and attention, you can probably reduce your pain level substantially. Full recovery is probably not possible, for most people once they reach a certain level of dysfunction, it's only possible to arrest the decline. I say that not to discourage you, but since correct expectations are key to maximizing recovery! Good luck and hope you find the process rewarding!
 
Grissom said:
What is this? "Used a Stem machine (worth its weight in gold)"

I need a new hip, have arthritis and experience low back issues - A dose of Meloxicam helps quite bit but I would rather not have to take it daily
Click to expand...
It is a device that delivers electricity via batter to a patch on wherever you put it. It does not fix anything but the pain goes away 99% while using it.

When I did my knee the first time the rehab place used one on my thigh to light up the muscles. That was to keep some of the atrophy at bay.

I was just asking to my son about the stem machine at my GKids LL game. He borrowed it and was a huge fan as well.

Not the one I have or recommending but this is the sort of dealio.

1778704615579.png

 
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The story I live by is my brothers shihan(5th degree) black belt instructor who had been hit by a train when he was in his early 20's. He was told that he'd never walk again, but he strengthened his core through very rigorous martial arts training and in his 50's he was an international body guard.

The lesson there was that a very strong core can much better support your spine and central body. I've maintained a very strong core throughout my life and will continue to do so. I got a set of core exercises from an expert at it with my first coaching team, the head coach had brought the guy in and I took copious notes.

I would always tell people to strengthen their core before resorting to back surgery which doesn't have great reviews, on average. If you do end up with back surgery, don't, under any circumstances, go to just a back doctor/sugeon, choose THE back surgeon, even if it costs a bunch more. Like every other field, surgeons are not created equal and many aren't very good but a few are quite good.

My :2cents
 
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