Digital SLR / DSLR Camera Question / DSLR Thread 2

[Cycle61]

So what would you consider to be a "cheaper body" that costs less than a D90 but is better than a D3000? I just picked up a Canon SX20 IS and I love it because it's small and I'll take it with me everywhere, but I also got bit by the DSLR bug and will probably buy one even though I know it won't be nearly as convenient to take on all my outdoors adventures.

Nikon D40 sounds interesting but Consumer Reports has it at the bottom of their list. D90 is at the top but I don't want to burn that much money for a toy I won't use nearly as often as my Canon SX20... Then the Canon 40D also looks good but now I'm back in the $1k range.

Decisions, decisions...

Consumer reports doesn't know dick about real cameras. You wouldn't trust them for race bike recommendations, would you? Same thing. It's too specialized for them. The D40 is an excellent little camera. I would (and did) go for a D200. Cost you about $500 for the body, and you can pick up a good lens to go with for $200 or so.

 

[Cycle61]

*grids*

Nice. Do want. Can't haz.

 

[VeloceMoto]

So what would you consider to be a "cheaper body" that costs less than a D90 but is better than a D3000?

Used gear! D70/D80!

Seriously, you could have a nice setup for $500. A D70, 18-70mm 3.5-4.5 lens, 50mm f1.8 prime maybe even a 35mm f1.8 prime, too, or a 55-200mm.

I think Cycle61 just bought a D200 (with a kit lens?) for around $500.

I'm not sure the Canon equivalents, but I'm sure they're there also.

Go used, go pro-sumer!



EDIT: Didn't see Cycle61's post above. So hey Nick, how's that working out for ya?

 

[Storm Shadow]

Used gear! D70/D80!

Seriously, you could have a nice setup for $500. A D70, 18-70mm 3.5-4.5 lens, 50mm f1.8 prime maybe even a 35mm f1.8 prime, too, or a 55-200mm.

I think Cycle61 just bought a D200 (with a kit lens?) for around $500.

I'm not sure the Canon equivalents, but I'm sure they're there also.

Go used, go pro-sumer!

canon xt for entry
canon 20d, 30d for your mid range
50mm 1.8, 35-135mm

 

[Cycle61]

EDIT: Didn't see Cycle61's post above. So hey Nick, how's that working out for ya?

Very nicely. For $500, there was no lens included, but I picked up a 35/1.8 which I'm really enjoying (works out to just a touch over 50mm on the 1.5 sensor) and I still have my 85/1.4. I think I might get a 20/2.8 and call it good with a set of primes for now.

Some recent stuff: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cycle61/

 

[afmotorsports]

Thanks guys... I already picked up a used Canon 40D last night. I posted this on SBR but would also appreciate any input you guys can provide:

"It's been a "Canon week" for me: first a SX20 IS came for Christmas, then I had so much fun playing with it I decided I also needed a boat anchor DSLR so I used some Christmas money to pick up a used Canon 40D with the kit 28-135 IS lens ($700 seemed like a fair price). The SX20 is a breeze and that camera will go with me to lots more places then the "boat anchor" but the 40D takes some ridiculously awesome pics - for sure I'll be taking that to the track and other places where the weight of it is not a concern.

So the questions:

1. Camera came with a Kingston 2GB 50X Elite Pro CF card and I also have a Sandisk Ultra II 8GB CF card - are those adequate or should I be looking at the Ultra III or Extreme? What would be the benefits of getting a faster CF card?

2. Flash... I won't be using it very often but it would be nice to have... and I don't want to spend a bunch of money on one, so what would you recommend?

3. Canon 28-135 lens is pretty cool and it seems to be fine for the indoor shooting I've done so far - maybe I'll get a wide angle lens someday but that's not a priority since my "focus" is on outdoor pics, wildlife and motorcycle races. The guys at San Jose Camera recommended the Canon 75-300mm IS lens for about $600 but I noticed you can pick them up used on Adorama and ebay for about half of that - how smart is it to buy a used lens? There's also one on CL for $400.

4. BG-E2N battery grip - worth it? Twice the battery life but makes the boat anchor even bigger. New for $128 on Adorama, used maybe under $100. I'm sticking with Canon brand accessories just to be safe.

5. This may sound stupid but neither the SX20 or the 40D give you very good options for storing the lens cap while in use. What do you guys do? I know it's just a matter of time before I sit on my lens cap if I keep sticking it in my back pocket. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any help or guidance you can provide. I'm jumping into the DSLR world with both feet and I'm sure I'll be looking at photography classes at De Anza or West Valley for next year (unless anyone has other suggestions for classes). My only regret is that I didn't do this sooner when the kids were even younger... "

 

[Cycle61]

*questions*

Nice. The 40d is a good camera, about equivalent to the D200 I suggested earlier.

1) The sandisk should be fine. Your camera has a decent buffer, and unless you're doing really long bursts, you'll be okay. Joe uses cheap-ass memory cards, and he does just fine with them. Doubt you'll be shooting faster/more than he does.

2) Flash...I think the one you want is the 430ex. One of the Canon guys will probably have more info.

3) The 28-135 is a good all-around lens. I have no qualms with buying used, just bring your camera to check it out, make sure the zoom and focus are smooth, the images are in focus, and the aperture blades are clean and operate as they should.

4) That’s up to you. I tend to prefer not to use a battery grip, but opinions vary.

5) I put my cap in the original box, and never take it out again until I’m going to sell the lens. They’re more of a pain in the ass than they’re worth for me. Put the hood on the lens, never remove it, and you’ll have just as much protection as a cap would give you, and better pictures.

Enjoy!

 

[rcad1]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I went to BB and played with the D3000 for about 2 hours. I compared it to the other cameras as well. I ended up purchasing the D3000. For my use, it is perfect! Once i get the hang of this, i will probably update later on. I'm confident it will serve it's purpose for what i need it to do. I took tons of pictures and they came out really well. I will post some later on tonight.

Thanks,
Ren

For what it's worth, I was in the same situation as you last year. Instead of buying a D40 (which was the predecessor to the D3000), I decided to go with a 4 year old, 6.3 MP Nikon D70 on Craigslist, for the same price ($450, body and lens). I have been immensely happy with the purchase. Autofocus is much faster than the D40; it has an internal AF motor, so it auto-focuses with almost any Nikon lens I would want; 6.3 Megapixels seems small, but on a DSLR is a bazillion times better than any 10 MP point-and-shoot; top LCD, better buttons for quick access to all the settings you neeed; optical slave (Nikon CLS) that fires external flashes (VERY VERY COOL!); very high flash sync, 1/500.

Therefore, if you're looking to spend $500 or less, I'd say check out the D70, or it's successor, the D80. Even though they're used (and zOMG! 5 years old!), they'll be far better than your modern point-and-shoot in almost every regard.

As for the D3000, I have played with them in the store. I haven't been impressed and to be honest, I'd rather keep my D70 even if it was an even trade (which it is not), for all the features above. I really don't care about the additional megapixels or the big shiny 3" screen.

Some reading material for you:
D70: http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d70.htm
D80: http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d80.htm
D3000: http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3000.htm ("Nikon's Worst DSLR — Ever.")

Enjoy.

And let us know what you choose!

 

[wannabe]

So the questions:

1. Camera came with a Kingston 2GB 50X Elite Pro CF card and I also have a Sandisk Ultra II 8GB CF card - are those adequate or should I be looking at the Ultra III or Extreme? What would be the benefits of getting a faster CF card?

2. Flash... I won't be using it very often but it would be nice to have... and I don't want to spend a bunch of money on one, so what would you recommend?

3. Canon 28-135 lens is pretty cool and it seems to be fine for the indoor shooting I've done so far - maybe I'll get a wide angle lens someday but that's not a priority since my "focus" is on outdoor pics, wildlife and motorcycle races. The guys at San Jose Camera recommended the Canon 75-300mm IS lens for about $600 but I noticed you can pick them up used on Adorama and ebay for about half of that - how smart is it to buy a used lens? There's also one on CL for $400.

4. BG-E2N battery grip - worth it? Twice the battery life but makes the boat anchor even bigger. New for $128 on Adorama, used maybe under $100. I'm sticking with Canon brand accessories just to be safe.

5. This may sound stupid but neither the SX20 or the 40D give you very good options for storing the lens cap while in use. What do you guys do? I know it's just a matter of time before I sit on my lens cap if I keep sticking it in my back pocket. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any help or guidance you can provide. I'm jumping into the DSLR world with both feet and I'm sure I'll be looking at photography classes at De Anza or West Valley for next year (unless anyone has other suggestions for classes). My only regret is that I didn't do this sooner when the kids were even younger... "

1. I agree with Nick. You don't need anything faster. The main benefit of getting a faster card is that you can do longer 'burst' shots before the memory buffer on your camera maxes out. I wouldn't worry about it. You're good with what you have.

2. Since you're gonna keep the flash on the camera most of the time, I recommend the EX430. There's no reason for you to spend the extra duckets on the EX580.

3. No feedback. I've never bought any used lenses. But, I recommend that you try before you buy. (www.borrowlenses.com) You can rent any lens you want there. Nothing sucks more than buying a lens and having it sit unused in your bag because you don't have a use for it.

4. This is completely a feel thing. When I had the Xti, it felt too small for me. I had trouble keeping it steady. The battery grip just made it feel better in my hands. My 5DMKII feels good out of the box. I don't think I'll be getting a battery grip for that, but I did buy a spare battery.

5. You can buy a little lanyard for the lens cap, but I just get into the habit of always putting it in the same place every time. I wouldn't go as far as Nick, but for the shots at the track, you are guaranteed to miss some great shots if you're in the habit of putting the lens cap on.

Don't forget to kick down for a good tripod or monopod.

 

[Baptistro]

2. Flash... I won't be using it very often but it would be nice to have... and I don't want to spend a bunch of money on one, so what would you recommend?

3. Canon 28-135 lens is pretty cool and it seems to be fine for the indoor shooting I've done so far - maybe I'll get a wide angle lens someday but that's not a priority since my "focus" is on outdoor pics, wildlife and motorcycle races. The guys at San Jose Camera recommended the Canon 75-300mm IS lens for about $600 but I noticed you can pick them up used on Adorama and ebay for about half of that - how smart is it to buy a used lens? There's also one on CL for $400.

4. BG-E2N battery grip - worth it? Twice the battery life but makes the boat anchor even bigger. New for $128 on Adorama, used maybe under $100. I'm sticking with Canon brand accessories just to be safe.

5. This may sound stupid but neither the SX20 or the 40D give you very good options for storing the lens cap while in use. What do you guys do? I know it's just a matter of time before I sit on my lens cap if I keep sticking it in my back pocket. Any ideas?

2. I have the 580exII and love it, but have not used others, so I cannot comment.

3. I picked up my 24-70 2.8/L, and my 70-200 f/2.8L IS used, and have had no serious issues aside from returning my first 70-200 purchase due to a faulty AF. I love the combo I have now, but am limited in the wide range due to the 1.6 sensor on the XSi. I am starting to see some limitations in my choice of body in the AF speed and sensors, as well as with frame rate per second.

4. I love my battery grip. Definitely allows the camera to fit better in my hand. You're a pretty big guy Alex, I would try it with and without and see what feels better in your hands. I'm also lazy about charging my batteries, so I like the ability to get a couple of thousand shots before needing to charge up.

5. I throw it in my bag for as long as I am shooting outside. If I am at home, the cap goes back on when I either store the camera, or I intend to leave the camera out for a while without it being used. We usually leave the camera out at home in case we need to take pics in a hurry. With a little one around, you've pretty much got to be ready in a heartbeat. Either way, the cap rarely sees my pockets, it's generally either in the bag, or on a flat surface at home.

BTW guys, did I mention how much I love the 70-200?

 

[afmotorsports]

Bap, you can be a real pain in the a$$ sometimes (and I can often outdo you! ) but your daughter is seriously cute man! My youngest is now 7 and I regret not having this camera around when she was younger.

btw, I'm working out the details to get one of those L series lenses (70-200mm F4) but I've read in more than one place that image stabilization is not necessary for sports photos and even Joe (com3) used to shoot with one of them. Considering how much cheaper that lens is than the IS version, it sounds like a pretty good bargain for about $600.

 

[wannabe]

Bap, you can be a real pain in the a$$ sometimes (and I can often outdo you! ) but your daughter is seriously cute man! My youngest is now 7 and I regret not having this camera around when she was younger.

btw, I'm working out the details to get one of those L series lenses (70-200mm F4) but I've read in more than one place that image stabilization is not necessary for sports photos and even Joe (com3) used to shoot with one of them. Considering how much cheaper that lens is than the IS version, it sounds like a pretty good bargain for about $600.

I have that lens, and I'm really happy with it for studio work, but when I'm working without any external strobes, I usually wish I had the IS. Everything slower than 1/100th of a sec exposure ended up blurry when I was zoomed in. For motorsports stuff, you will rarely go that slow especially for daytime events, but if you ever shoot in a stadium at night, you will wish you had it.

Having said that, check amazon. I think they have that lense for just a hair over $500. I bought mine on sale there for $499. I'm currently saving for the 70-200L f2.8 IS.

 

[BrassPremier]

i'd love nikons 70-200 2.8 VR II, but $2400 is pretty steep...

 

[Cycle61]

After reading a bazillion reviews and comparisions (VR II has better corner sharpness vs VR I maintains focal length at close distances) I think the older version would be a better fit for me. Corners aren't as critical for what I do. And the little landscape shooting I've ever done with a 70-200 certainly didn't seem to suffer from softness at the periphery. Maybe I just had a really good copy? You tell me...unacceptable in the corners?

Full size: http://nickdavis.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p301457445.jpg

 

[Baptistro]

Bap, you can be a real pain in the a$$ sometimes (and I can often outdo you! ) but your daughter is seriously cute man! My youngest is now 7 and I regret not having this camera around when she was younger.

btw, I'm working out the details to get one of those L series lenses (70-200mm F4) but I've read in more than one place that image stabilization is not necessary for sports photos and even Joe (com3) used to shoot with one of them. Considering how much cheaper that lens is than the IS version, it sounds like a pretty good bargain for about $600.

Thanks Alex.

We bought this camera shortly after Izzy was born, and have had no regrets whatsoever, even after spending much more than initially anticipated. Every penny was well spent.

If you want, you are welcome to try out any of my lenses before you buy. I will most likely have my whole setup with me at the races this coming season.

After reading a bazillion reviews and comparisions (VR II has better corner sharpness vs VR I maintains focal length at close distances) I think the older version would be a better fit for me. Corners aren't as critical for what I do. And the little landscape shooting I've ever done with a 70-200 certainly didn't seem to suffer from softness at the periphery. Maybe I just had a really good copy? You tell me...unacceptable in the corners?

Full size: http://nickdavis.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p301457445.jpg

Softness? All I see is softness in the lower left corner and that seems to be more due to the depth of field than anything else. And besides, who cares? That is an amazing photo.

 

[BrassPremier]

well you wouldnt really see the softness in the corners on the older 70-200 VR I cause that was shot in a DX sensor, for FX i hear the differences are night and day

 

[Cycle61]

Crap. I'm 0 for 2 this week. Forgot that was on a D200.

FWIW, I used the 70-200 on my D700 a couple of times, and never had a problems with it. But that was for events/weddings/etc where corners generally aren't critical.

Softness? All I see is softness in the lower left corner and that seems to be more due to the depth of field than anything else. And besides, who cares? That is an amazing photo.

Thanks. The "firefalls" are a naturally occurring trick of mountain light, happens in mid-February if you get just the right conditions. I'm planning to go try and catch it again this year, maybe spend a couple of days up there.

 

[Baptistro]

well you wouldnt really see the softness in the corners on the older 70-200 VR I cause that was shot in a DX sensor, for FX i hear the differences are night and day

Crap. I'm 0 for 2 this week. Forgot that was on a D200.

FWIW, I used the 70-200 on my D700 a couple of times, and never had a problems with it. But that was for events/weddings/etc where corners generally aren't critical.



Thanks. The "firefalls" are a naturally occurring trick of mountain light, happens in mid-February if you get just the right conditions. I'm planning to go try and catch it again this year, maybe spend a couple of days up there.

Wouldn't that still make it irrelevant? Rather than upgrading glass, wouldn't upgrading your body if you already have the glass save a lot of headaches? I only see this as a detriment ($$$) to those with an FX sensor looking to get this focal range.

 

[Cycle61]

I currently have neither a full-frame body or a 70-200.

 

[zypher]

battery grip makes your life easier when you do a lot of portrait shots..