Do Harley's Attract More Women?

[budman]

One of the stated goals of a mod here is to make this place more welcoming to women. And ironically enough, this very thread is about attracting women. So when women come on here and give you guys some tips about how NOT to make women feel alienated here or in the moto world in general, it's very much ON topic. If you don't like what they have to say, then you can expect fewer women here.... and on the back of your Harleys and sprotbiles.

This is indeed a goal of barf... and folks not taking rape seriously and joking about it is to me not cool and we would prefer you just pass up the chance to make a funny that some surely find disgusting and actually can be quite damaging.

Come on guys.. lets just mature a bit.

Here is a gal telling YOU that is not funny and you cannot see it??
Please open you mind and your eyes!

 

[Lucky13xx]

This is indeed a goal of barf... and folks not taking rape seriously and joking about it is to me not cool and we would prefer you just pass up the chance to make a funny that some surely find disgusting and actually can be quite damaging.

Come on guys.. lets just mature a bit.

Here is a gal telling YOU that is not funny and you cannot see it??
Please open you mind and your eyes!

Bud,

The topic got ugly and I guess triggered my "slippery slope mechanism" when there was a chloroform joke put in, and was responded with a harsh statistics education on rape. OP apologized and then it spun into offended zone.

I hope Im speaking for everyone. The act of rape is horrific and tragic. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, that goes for BOTH man or woman. Yes I have consoled many that have fallen to such a barbaric crime. Never with the attitude of "get over it"

Some of us though try not to carry life with such a heavy head on subjects like rape, death, child abuse, accidents or drug abuse. Please don't try to compare one of these personal tragedies to each other. Well drug abuse isn't as bad as rape. Accidents are awful, but death is worse. You aren't in the mind of the person suffering. Jokes are funny. Gallows humor has gotten me through the worst tragedies in my life and Ive had some biggies. Sometimes things are so dark and terrible all you can do is chuckle at it. The alternative is to lash out at anyone who dares to tread near the sensitive topic.

If we are want to really examine making a funny about subjects that are damaging and disgusting I can find numerous topics in the "jokes" section as well as any other thread that hit a little to close to home. I don't though because I understand the malicious intent isn't there. Plus I feel it would take something away from the board.

BARF seems to be a welcoming forum. For All sexes. Pretty good at policing itself and attracts some of the more level heads in the Bay Area. I do use it for more than just Q and A. I've met some genuinely good people here, Including you Bud. (Always thanks for BARF)

I love opposing view points and Im sure this little rant will trigger a few. So ball's in play.

 

[Pking]

 

[planegray]

..........Some of us though try not to carry life with such a heavy head on subjects like rape, death, child abuse, accidents or drug abuse. Please don't try to compare one of these personal tragedies to each other. Well drug abuse isn't as bad as rape. Accidents are awful, but death is worse. You aren't in the mind of the person suffering. Jokes are funny. Gallows humor has gotten me through the worst tragedies in my life and Ive had some biggies. Sometimes things are so dark and terrible all you can do is chuckle at it. The alternative is to lash out at anyone who dares to tread near the sensitive topic. ..............................................

I couldn't figure out how to say that, so Thank You, for doing so.

Cognitive therapy councils us to verify our emotions before acting upon them. Doing so prevents us from overreacting when someone makes a joke or comment that offends us. Living through tramatic experiences doesn't give ANYone the right to, in turn, inflict their pain on those around them. Some of us are more sympathetic than others, when dealing with damaged people who are lashing out.

We've got some great people here, and to assume that someone is evil because they say something that offends us, is ridiculous. I have spoken and done MANY offensive things in my time, but very few were intended to be so.

 

[nbean16]

I think OP is getting flack for a couple reasons. While the idea for the thread is pretty lame, i think if it were made by a veteran member it wouldnt of had this response. I think its partly that op is new and from what Ive noticed, most of his posts are about trying to bang some chick or dating a stripper or trying to bone a pornstar. I think people are just reacting to a trend of somewhat lame postings from a new member.

 

[Freya]

I think OP is getting flack for a couple reasons. While the idea for the thread is pretty lame, i think if it were made by a veteran member it wouldnt of had this response. I think its partly that op is new and from what Ive noticed, most of his posts are about trying to bang some chick or dating a stripper or trying to bone a pornstar. I think people are just reacting to a trend of somewhat lame postings from a new member.

Nope. This discussion went beyond just one person and his tired-ass joke when the OP and others were called out and then doubled down on their idiocy. It morphed into a meta analysis of gender relations on BARF and motorcycle culture in general.

There was a lot of thoughtful reflection to go with the typical chest-thumping of a few select fragile male egos, so I'm encouraged by the exchange.

 

[jdan007]

I think OP is getting flack for a couple reasons. While the idea for the thread is pretty lame, i think if it were made by a veteran member it wouldnt of had this response. I think its partly that op is new and from what Ive noticed, most of his posts are about trying to bang some chick or dating a stripper or trying to bone a pornstar. I think people are just reacting to a trend of somewhat lame postings from a new member.

fact check

there was 1 thread, about my girlfriend, and i mentioned that our relationship also led me to hooking up with a pornstar. if you want, you're in palo alto, she has friends.

 

[Z3n]

Here's the thing about gallows humor - if it gets you through the day, that's great, but generalizing your experiences out to everyone else, assuming that that is what gets everyone else through the day when it comes to traumatic experiences is super presumptive. Rape jokes are kind of like popping a bag near a veteran with PTSD - you have no idea what is going on inside their head, and what memories of stress, trauma, and abuse that might trigger.

Secondly, I find it somewhat frustrating that here too, people pay lip service to being more welcoming. A diverse motorcycle culture benefits from many people participating in it, and part of that experience is going to involve treating others different from you with a baseline of respect. At the end of the day, free speech is great and all but let's be honest - we already ban plenty of speech here, and asking people to not bury land mines in threads for people who have been abused seems like a completely reasonable addition to the TOS with zero downsides for anyone.

A welcoming environment requires work, care, and respect for others. I think barf can be that place, but only when people are willing to take a stand for it.

 

[Hooli]

wow. this thread.

Right?

 

[Papi]

10 years of sportbike riding and i'm starting to wonder if i've been doing it wrong all along

Maybe it's your breath. Try a Mint.
Cuz whats coming out of your mouth smellz bad.

 

[Z3n]

I couldn't figure out how to say that, so Thank You, for doing so.

Cognitive therapy councils us to verify our emotions before acting upon them. Doing so prevents us from overreacting when someone makes a joke or comment that offends us. Living through tramatic experiences doesn't give ANYone the right to, in turn, inflict their pain on those around them. Some of us are more sympathetic than others, when dealing with damaged people who are lashing out.

Let's be quite clear here - this is counseling the abused to not react to people abusing them. A basic modicum of respect for others is all that should be needed to make it very clear that making rape jokes in a public setting is completely inappropriate for a variety of reasons. Arguing that people that have been abused have an obligation to those who would make rape jokes to "not react emotionally" is complete fucking bullshit in the same way that it's complete fucking bullshit to tell a minority not to get offended when someone calls them a wetback, a nigger, or some other racial slur. The person who said the words has a responsibility to make sure those words are appropriate for that audience, and any reaction they may get because they didn't properly think through who their audience actually is is completely deserved.

The starter for the behavior here isn't the person who's been abused lashing out and "needing to control their emotions" (ie, an abused person lashing out for no reason), it's someone making an insensitive comment, and then that person rightly being called on their shit behavior. Free speech puts the responsibility of what is said on the speaker - if you don't like the idea that someone's going to politely tell you to stop, don't make a fucking rape joke.

We've got some great people here, and to assume that someone is evil because they say something that offends us, is ridiculous. I have spoken and done MANY offensive things in my time, but very few were intended to be so.

I'm sorry but intent is meaningless. You do shitty things, you own those shitty things, and you try and make up for them by undoing the harm that you did. Claiming "but I didn't MEAN it" is just dropping your responsibility and dancing away without ever making a real, tangible effort to actually undo the harm you did. If you called everyone a nigger because that's just how you were raised and you didn't actually mean it like that, failing to examine that and change your behavior when you're called on it actually just makes you racist, because your actions continue to support and encourage racism in others. Same is true of sexism and rape jokes.

BARF isn't a living room, it's an auditorium - there's a lot more people listening then there are speaking. People should think about that, and if people want to make rape jokes and other offcolor jokes, there's plenty of other places on the internet where you can be in an environment that encourages that. Unsurprisingly, they're all cesspools.

 

[danate]

Here's the thing about gallows humor - if it gets you through the day, that's great, but generalizing your experiences out to everyone else, assuming that that is what gets everyone else through the day when it comes to traumatic experiences is super presumptive. Rape jokes are kind of like popping a bag near a veteran with PTSD - you have no idea what is going on inside their head, and what memories of stress, trauma, and abuse that might trigger.

Secondly, I find it somewhat frustrating that here too, people pay lip service to being more welcoming. A diverse motorcycle culture benefits from many people participating in it, and part of that experience is going to involve treating others different from you with a baseline of respect. At the end of the day, free speech is great and all but let's be honest - we already ban plenty of speech here, and asking people to not bury land mines in threads for people who have been abused seems like a completely reasonable addition to the TOS with zero downsides for anyone.

A welcoming environment requires work, care, and respect for others. I think barf can be that place, but only when people are willing to take a stand for it.

I find it way more unreasonable to devise social policy and censorship to avoid triggering people's mental health disorders. I think a general level of sensitivity should be reasonable goal that can be moderated socially. Adding more TOS for specific social items out of the chance it could affect someone who happens to have had a related experience is ridiculous. That person also has the ability to just not read the thread or ignore the comment itself. If they can't handle that, then they need to seek professional help and it's on them. The way you are talking, might as well ban the entire Comedy Central channel on the off chance someone might happen to be watching and have a bad joke trigger their PTSD. If Barf turned into the Disney Channel with Walt's Gestapo waiting on the sidelines to tackle you if your mouth slips, I'd have a hard time hanging around here anymore.

 

[jdan007]

Maybe it's your breath. Try a Mint.
Cuz whats coming out of your mouth smellz bad.

cant be that, in person, i freeze up and get to scared to talk, eyes on the floor at all times until im alone again

 

[Papi]

Let's be quite clear here - this is .....

Easy there Mister Helper. Relax.



.

 

[Papi]

cant be that, in person, i freeze up and get to scared to talk, eyes on the floor at all times until im alone again

The Point: you missed it. It was a metaphor cupcake.

 

[TrackCage]

The Point: you missed it. It was a metaphor cupcake.

The sarcasm: you missed it.

 

[Lunch Box]

cant be that, in person, i freeze up and get to scared to talk, eyes on the floor at all times until im alone again

Did this make anyone else think of Shy Ronnie?

[youtube]6_W_xLWtNa0[/youtube]

 

[Papi]

The sarcasm: you missed it.

The Negative: you wrong.

Anyway, enough of the circle jerk. Some of us have actual Motorcycle shit to do. Have a good weekend riding, the desert should be perfect for our event on Sunday. Later kids.

 

[Reli]

Right?

oh noez, a blind person joke

 

[planegray]

Let's be quite clear here - this is counseling the abused to not react to people abusing them. A basic modicum of respect for others is all that should be needed to make it very clear that making rape jokes in a public setting is completely inappropriate for a variety of reasons. Arguing that people that have been abused have an obligation to those who would make rape jokes to "not react emotionally" is complete fucking bullshit in the same way that it's complete fucking bullshit to tell a minority not to get offended when someone calls them a wetback, a nigger, or some other racial slur. The person who said the words has a responsibility to make sure those words are appropriate for that audience, and any reaction they may get because they didn't properly think through who their audience actually is is completely deserved.

The starter for the behavior here isn't the person who's been abused lashing out and "needing to control their emotions" (ie, an abused person lashing out for no reason), it's someone making an insensitive comment, and then that person rightly being called on their shit behavior. Free speech puts the responsibility of what is said on the speaker - if you don't like the idea that someone's going to politely tell you to stop, don't make a fucking rape joke.



I'm sorry but intent is meaningless. You do shitty things, you own those shitty things, and you try and make up for them by undoing the harm that you did. Claiming "but I didn't MEAN it" is just dropping your responsibility and dancing away without ever making a real, tangible effort to actually undo the harm you did. If you called everyone a nigger because that's just how you were raised and you didn't actually mean it like that, failing to examine that and change your behavior when you're called on it actually just makes you racist, because your actions continue to support and encourage racism in others. Same is true of sexism and rape jokes.

BARF isn't a living room, it's an auditorium - there's a lot more people listening then there are speaking. People should think about that, and if people want to make rape jokes and other offcolor jokes, there's plenty of other places on the internet where you can be in an environment that encourages that. Unsurprisingly, they're all cesspools.

Ok, so you are perfectly good with perpetuating a cycle of abuse. Got it. You think some poor behaviors are excusable, but others are not, and you are always able to know the difference. Got it.
(No, I don't think that, but that response is pretty much what you deserve for the bullshit interpretation you did with mine. To be clear, you do NOT have a monopoly on judging "good" behavior.)

As far as I'm concerned, in life there's often only one thing I can control, and that's my reaction to whatever is happening. If you feel you can reliably control everyone else in the world without stifling their individuality, my hat is off to you. I'm absolutely willing to admit to harm I've done, and you have implied otherwise. I believe contrary to your opinion, that intent DOES matter... to a degree. People who love each other manage to hurt each other on a regular basis, there would be no reason for people to ever maintain a long term relationship if they didn't trust their partner's intentions. Unlike you, I don't think that I have to ability to decipher other people's motivations, nor do I wish to try..... "therein lies maddness", in my opinion.

barf has some great members, and everyone is at different levels of awareness. To me, the best way for us all to become better people is for EVERYONE to show respect for each other. Often NOT reacting, and instead questioning, is the best way to allow people to show their best side. Yes, sometimes "the gift of consequences" is the only way to control someone, but I certainly prefer that it not be the first reaction. You seem willing to throw out anyone who doesn't validate your your values.... how the hell will you ever be able to help people see the error of their ways with that attitude ?

This thread has been another learning experience for me, and I have a fair amount of experience with abuse. My hat is off to people willing to speak up and let us know when we've gone out of bounds.. why wouldn't I want to be a better person ?