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Don't know bout y'all but if it's the rider's decision, I don't have much sympathy kind of like the speeding tickets

J

John2023

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2023
Location
California
Moto(s)
Ninja Z
I've received over the years.

Lots of cases of people making poor choices or judgments like that recent bike vs. train incident in San Leandro. If it's true that the rider made the bad decision to participate, I don't have much sympathy and this applies to other aspects of life too not just motorcycling.

Personally, I've received several speeding citations over the years and not once did I ever blame the officer that cited me or fought over it in court because I know the common sense rule of 'wanna play, gotta pay'. Even when I had one for going just 5mph over, I still paid for it no questions asked because I still broke the rule. I look at it this way, the officer is just there doing the job that he was hired to do.

I pay the citation fees, complete traffic school and that's that because it was my decision to speed to begin with.
 
I get what you’re saying, though in the San Leandro case, it wasn’t the rider who paid the ultimate price. It was the passenger who had no say in the matter and I do have empathy for that.
 
tzrider said:
I get what you’re saying, though in the San Leandro case, it wasn’t the rider who paid the ultimate price. It was the passenger who had no say in the matter and I do have empathy for that.
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True true, same here if the passenger had no say in the matter.
 
I've been lucky, I haven't had a speeding ticket in years although I routinely break the limit when I ride. But if I was to get pulled over it's my fault. Why would I complain to the cop who's doing his job? There are so many bodycam vids on the internet that show folks arguing with the police, or turning a simple violation into a felony. Why do that?
 
I was caught speeding once on my way to Honda Milpitas to get my ST serviced. I got lucky when the CHP officer who pulled me over on his bike let me go with a warning. I was set to take off again when I remembered that I’d failed to thank him. I got off my bike and walked up to him with my hand stuck out to shake his. He was a bit startled but I smiled and thanked him as I shook his hand. He seemed to appreciate my gesture.
 
While I pride myself on carrying my own water, when rules are broken and I'm on the hook, I fight it.

It's a game. Plenty of books and vids about playing the game, nothing dire if you lose, great amusement to win. Last unfair ticket, I never said anything to the cop except polite responses, signed on the line and went on my way.

Waited until the deadline then requested a court trial. Waited until the last day and requested an extension. Ten weeks out I showed up for court to hear the lamest excuse from a cop for not having his notes: "He was on a motorcycle? I usually have a good memory about these things, I didn't think I would need my notes."

I walked out amused that day.
 
Likewise I have no issues with red light cameras. Sure, there are always instances of someone who was too late to brake, or went through because they were worried about being rear-ended or just feel like they got screwed, but IMO, they're a legitimate means of 'calming' traffic. Are they also a cash-grab? Maybe. They bring in money, but ideally only from people who broke the law. Pay to play.
 
senpai71 said:
Likewise I have no issues with red light cameras. Sure, there are always instances of someone who was too late to brake, or went through because they were worried about being rear-ended or just feel like they got screwed, but IMO, they're a legitimate means of 'calming' traffic. Are they also a cash-grab? Maybe. They bring in money, but ideally only from people who broke the law. Pay to play.
Click to expand...
Research has shown that the third-parties that manage the red light cameras frequently shorten the yellow light cycle at those intersections. Additionally research also indicates that there is no change in number of crashes caused by running the red, and in fact it increases the number of rear-end crashes.
 
budman said:
Hate red light cameras. Hate tickets.
Beat a couple. Paid for more. Life.
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I think any ticket issued should be from a person, not a device. Be it a red light or a speed camera... that's a hard NOPE from me.
Also I think that all traffic vehicles should be marked like they are in England with BRIGHT reflective colors and they shouldn't be allowed to hide. Having the officers out in the open will do MUCH more to slow people down than hiding and issuing fines. But that's not what it's all about. They claim "it's all about safety" when in reality its about revenue generation. They want your money, and since they can't just reach into your pockets as much as they want, they have to find workarounds that "fit" into existing laws. Hence the fines. The EXCESSIVE fines and court costs associated with them.
 
John2023 said:
I've received over the years.

Lots of cases of people making poor choices or judgments like that recent bike vs. train incident in San Leandro. If it's true that the rider made the bad decision to participate, I don't have much sympathy and this applies to other aspects of life too not just motorcycling.

Personally, I've received several speeding citations over the years and not once did I ever blame the officer that cited me or fought over it in court because I know the common sense rule of 'wanna play, gotta pay'. Even when I had one for going just 5mph over, I still paid for it no questions asked because I still broke the rule. I look at it this way, the officer is just there doing the job that he was hired to do.

I pay the citation fees, complete traffic school and that's that because it was my decision to speed to begin with.
Click to expand...
I haven't had a speeding ticket in years, at least probably 15 years+. Maybe more. I'm not sure because the car I got the ticket in I haven't in a long time ago. I got a few when I was younger than that, and they weren't that bad. Not for street racing or doing 20 over. Actually I do remember the last time I was in traffic court, it was my brother who got a ticket and somehow passed off his identify as mine. I'm assuming he didn't have a license on him or it was suspended anyway and used my identity they looked up. We're brothers but we don't look that much a like. But he did it somehow and I got a court summons for it. I was driving on a suspended license I didn't know was suspended for months and only found out was because the new job I just started told me stop everything I'm doing and take care of this. The only thing I had to do is say the name signed on that ticket was not my signature. The issuing officer said it was night and the picture of my ACTUAL license is who he saw. Judge made me sign my signature on a piece of paper 5 times. And I explained the ticket was issued in San Diego, where I didn't live, and haven't been to in years, doesn't make sense. She checked it against the ticket and they were clearly not even remotely the same. Nothing else needed.

Why would I not want to try to get out of that if my chances are I can make a good faith argument and bank on the issuing officer not showing up to just have the ticket thrown out? I probably wouldn't do that today if a ticket was 75 in a 65 but that's more of my time is worth more the money I might have gotten back compared to what I make in an hour. Still might do it out of general principle but it hasn't happened in a long time to make that decision.
 
The one moving violation in a cage on my record since 1987 was a red light ticket. I watched the video 10 times because it looked like a full stop on a right turn. I did have speeding ticket shortly before and did the online thing to expunge it so I was not eligable.

I have had 1 ticket on a moto since '74. It was a DY pass that was complete BS. Car stopped in a blind turn and waved me by. I was at a dead stop and feared being smacked from the back so I scooched forward to see the best I could and went for it.

Officer wrote me up for 33 in a 40 DY pass. He would not listen to common sense when he pulled me over in front of Alice's for maximum show to other riders. I explained it was a die or die trying not to die deal to me. He did not care and was sort of snotty about it. After I signed it I told him I am going to beat this and I think some common sense should have applied here.

I beat it in court.
 
Enchanter said:
Research has shown that the third-parties that manage the red light cameras frequently shorten the yellow light cycle at those intersections. Additionally research also indicates that there is no change in number of crashes caused by running the red, and in fact it increases the number of rear-end crashes.
Click to expand...
Looking at the Wikipedia article on Red-light cameras (RLCs) (a secondary source, to be sure), I see this:

"A systematic review summarized evidence from 38 studies and found that overall, red-light cameras are effective at reducing right angle crashes and related injuries, as well as total injuries, but they also lead to an increase in rear end crashes. In some areas, the length of the yellow phase has been increased to provide a longer warning to accompany the red-light-running-camera. There is also concern that the international standard formula used for setting the length of the yellow phase ignores the laws of physics, which may cause drivers to inadvertently run the red phase."

From the linked review:

"The results of this systematic review suggest that RLCs are associated with a statistically significant reduction in crash outcomes, although this varies by type of crash, and suggest a reduction in red light violations. RLCs are associated with a a 20% decrease in total injury crashes, a 24% decrease in right angle crashes and a 29% decrease in right angle injury crashes. Conversely, however, RLCs are also associated with a statistically significant increase in rear end crashes of 19%. There was also some evidence that RLCs were associated with a large reduction in crashes due to red light violations. There is no evidence to suggest that study heterogeneity is consistently explained by either country or risk of bias, nor did the presence or absence of warning signs appear to impact the effectiveness of RLCs. Studies accounting for regression to the mean tend to report more moderate decreases for right angle crashes resulting in injury than studies not accounting for regression to the mean. Studies with better control for confounders reported a nonsignificant decrease in right angle crashes, compared with a significant decrease for all studies."

So at worst, it appears that RLCs are good for some things (side crashes, total injury crashes) and maybe bad for others (rear-end crashes).

I'm still in favor of them.
 
My last speeding ticket was 30 years ago. I picked up my Camaro from the muffler shop. Hopped on the freeway to hear that nice sweet rumble. Saw someone coming up behind me so I sped up they kept on coming so I kept on too. Lights go on and I got a ticket deserved it

But if I'm just cruising along nothing too outrageous and get ticketed. With all the BS going on in the Bay with no repercussions. I'm going to be a little miffed.
 
Last time I got pulled over was October 2024. I was doing about 85 one 1 heading north from Crescent City during morning rush hour. This was maybe a bad idea. I happened to notice one car in the long line of commuters but didn't realize it had lights until it was too late. I just pulled over, as there was no way I wasn't boned. Had a nice chat with the cop, showed registration (which required removing my bag and seat) and somehow managed to get off with a warning. While I never stated a number, when asked why I thought I got pulled over I did say I was probably going a little faster than I should have :laughing I've had more warnings than tickets, but I accept that the way I ride means there is always a chance of a performance award.
 
The worst citations out all the traffic citations I've received over the years were parking tickets. The worst one happened in Union Square when I dropped my wife off. I stopped in a bus stop zone so she can get out of the car. I was only there for literally 2 seconds. Somehow a parking enforcer from a block away was able to take a photo of my car stopped in the bus stop zone so I paid for it no questions asked especially since I did it intentionally. The second worst one happened at Aquatic Park pier. I parked my car by the curb and didn't notice the crosswalk as it was kind of dark. There was no break in the curb for the crosswalk section either. My car partially blocked that crosswalk so got tagged for it. Again, paid for it no questions ask even though it was not done intentionally.
 

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Agree with Budman's "common sense" point. If my safety was compromised and the cop doesn't care, I would've question it too.

Unfortunately, there are bad apples in every basket including the Law Enforcement basket. Most LE are good but there are exceptions as with most things in life IMO. If I was falsely cited, I would fight it. However as mentioned, if I intentionally speed, illegally parked, etc., and get cited, I will just pay for the "performance award" that N4teTheGreat mentioned. I have never gone to court over it and still can't see myself going to court and try to lie and weasel my way out of a citation when the violation was done intentionally on my part.

I do wonder though, for those that got cited for speeding intentionally and went to court hoping the LE that cited them don't show up. What if the LE shows up, do they finally take responsibility for their intentional action or continue to lie their way out and hope to get the violation drop?

We all have our reasons and do things that we think it's right for us so not pointing finger but just curious as I've never been on the going to court to fight my "performance award" side of the fence.
 
Got a performance award last fall. I deserved it. Tooling along Hwy 12 between Cordelia and Napa. It's near impossible not to push the limits on this section. Came up over a small rise and there was Mr. Motocop aiming his laser thing at me. I immediately pulled over, shut down and kept my hands in view. He asked for my license, reggy and insurance. I had all readily available. I asked him for a veteran's discount and he asked me what I wanted. I asked for a 10% discount and he chuckled and said sure. Wrote me up for 74 in a 65. He clocked me at 80 in a 50 (speed limit on that road). I figured good enough. We chatted about motorcycles for a few minutes and it turned out that we both knew another CHP motocop. Told me to say hello.

Apparently, there is some code that they annotate on your record that the violation is altered. A few months later, I got pulled over on 101 for lane sharing a little too aggressively. It was a local motocop this time who was following me and decided he had seen enough. He mentioned that I was given a break last time. He gave me a warning and told me to take it easy.

I deserved both and take my licks when deserved.
 
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