Drinking and Riding

[sliverstorm]

"does 1 beer constitute drunk?"

My personal suspicion is that while a low BAC does not constitute 'drunk', even when you're at the point you act, feel, and behave like a normal human, you'd find the crash incidence would be slightly higher. Not high enough you'd necessarily notice it in your circle of friends, maybe not even high enough it'd be statistically significant on BARF, but nationwide I bet you'd see it.

Biggest problem with trying to wage that discussion about 1 drink is people are different. If a 350lb guy has a weak beer and goes for a drive 15 minutes later, he'll be for all purposes completely sober. Me on the other hand, I weight 140lbs and don't eat food when I can get away with it, so half a beer makes me light-headed. You can then go on to say, people should know themselves and be smart and make smart choices, but the border cases who aren't clearly drunk or clearly unaffected will push their luck- especially since that's what alcohol is all about

 

[KeyMan]

^ Well I'm talking about going up to someone after a single beer, and that's going back to a "does 1 beer constitute drunk?" type argument -- though I agree with everything in your post regardless.

Drunk, NO, Impaired, YES!

The simple fact is that no one can honestly say their judgment will not be impaired. The degree to which it is impaired may be negligible. Then again, if they are tired, not focused, etc. it may be a factor that leads to a less than desirable result.

Regardless, it's simply not wise to ride under the influence of any medication, alcohol, or other substance that could possibly impair judgment, affect reaction times, vision, etc.

 

[KeyMan]

What do you do if they take allergy medicine? Heart medicine? Pain killers?

Do you take keys for that or just when they have a beer?


Just curious, not trying to be a smart-ass. It's just that if you went on a group ride with a bunch of dudes that were 50 and over, you'd be pulling everyones keys after seeing the handfulls of pills those fellas have to swill just to get out of bed.

I never said I would take someone's keys. I said I would ask them to give them to me willingly.

The answer to your question is prey for them. Fortunately, most people take meds in a specific nominal dose. Alcohol, not so much.

 

[sanjuro]

I think this is a pointless thread.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense knows more than one pop at the bar is only going to lead to bad things.

Assholes like Edward Schafer (8 DUI's before running over little girl on his Harley) or Nicola Bucci (caused two separate fatal accidents, claiming he fell asleep both times), don't give a shit about anyone else, and anything a bunch of random posters are not going to change a thing.

 

[afm199]

Not saying I condone the behavior, just saying its not your responsibility to tell others how to handle themselves.




That's his decision.

WRONG! It is my right and duty as a citizen to prevent an impaired driver from putting myself and others in danger..... YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO RISK THE LIVES OF OTHERS WITH YOUR IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR. Driving and riding are privileges, and there is no constitutional right to drive drunk.

 

[KeyMan]

^^^^^^ WHAT HE SAID ^^^^^^

As to the previous post...there is a point here, if one person reads this thread and that results in thoughts that one day result in action, there is a point.

I posted this thread so I will restate...

I've said my peace, please either respect it or, agree to disagree QUIETLY.

I will elaborate, if you feel the need to cast stones please don't. If you feel compelled to state a detracting position, please take a moment look inside and ask your self why. What is to be gained by you, what is to be gained by others? As yourself these questions. If you still feel compelled, go for a nice long ride. If you still feel compelled, take another ride. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Brown81]

I never said I would take someone's keys. I said I would ask them to give them to me willingly.

The answer to your question is prey for them. Fortunately, most people take meds in a specific nominal dose. Alcohol, not so much.

You didn't answer the question.

"Prey"??

 

[Key007]

You didn't answer the question.

"Prey"??

Hell yeah Prey

"..if it wasn't for date rape I'd never get laid..."

 

[monstermonster]

Jebus, the holier-than-thou-edness in this thread makes me wanna get hammered and wheelie into a flock of nuns.

 

[serazin]

WRONG! It is my right and duty as a citizen to prevent an impaired driver from putting myself and others in danger..... YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO RISK THE LIVES OF OTHERS WITH YOUR IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR. Driving and riding are privileges, and there is no constitutional right to drive drunk.

Even if you ride a Harley???

JK.. Actually you said this better than I have ever read before!

 

[MCSFTGUY]

Drunk, NO, Impaired, YES!

The simple fact is that no one can honestly say their judgment will not be impaired. The degree to which it is impaired may be negligible. Then again, if they are tired, not focused, etc. it may be a factor that leads to a less than desirable result.

Regardless, it's simply not wise to ride under the influence of any medication, alcohol, or other substance that could possibly impair judgment, affect reaction times, vision, etc.

2 years ago there was a very small test done regarding drinking and riding and the Minnesota Safety Center. There were 24 riders involved in the test and they used a motorcycle with outriggers so it would not fall over. Simple findings, at about 0.04, half of the legal DUI limit across the nation, rider started to lose the coordinated fine muscle control necessary to maintain control of their motorcycles.

We have not heard more about this test because it does have some small flaws, number of riders not large enought to be statistically significant and there were some real questions about the experience of the rider... I think one rider had a total riding experience of 15 years and this was the most experience rider... which translated to CA riding is about 4 months.

But, the info is still worth considering.... 0.04.... one beer, drink, glass of wine. And.... DUI is one of the top three crash causes of rider here in CA.....

Just a little more info.

 

[AOW]

I cruise the Napa Valley every once-in-awhile and it amazes me how many people on bikes go wine tasting.

it's not the wine "tasters" that concern me, it's the noobs that actually drink the wine they are tasting

(Explanation: Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant. That means that it diminshes your ability to make decisions and JUDGE your own actions and abilities.) That's why so many drunken driving tickets are given. ALL of the people who got them were SURE they were unimpaired. I was when I got mine. i KNEW I was fine. ) Sounds like you are making excuses for driving drunk. Hope I am not around when you fuck up.

A) Unlike you my intelligent friend, I do not drive or ride drunk or buzzed, EVER
B) Again, just because you were too foolish to recognize your limits does not mean the rest of us are. If your friends are asking, "are you sure you're OK to drive/ride?", then you are NOT OK to drive or ride.
C) It is not uncommon for me to ride to lunch or dinner with friends and have a drink during the course of that meal. The drink is just that, ONE drink over the course of a 1.5 to 2hr meal stop. At 200lbs & 1 drink with a meal over a 2 hour period (on occasion) I know I am fine.

 

[sliverstorm]

it's not the wine "tasters" that concern me, it's the noobs that actually drink the wine they are tasting

Can I just point out that you still absorb some alcohol through your mouth, even if you spit it back out after tasting it?

 

[afm199]

it's not the wine "tasters" that concern me, it's the noobs that actually drink the wine they are tasting


A) Unlike you my intelligent friend, I do not drive or ride drunk or buzzed, EVER
B) Again, just because you were too foolish to recognize your limits does not mean the rest of us are. If your friends are asking, "are you sure you're OK to drive/ride?", then you are NOT OK to drive or ride.
C) It is not uncommon for me to ride to lunch or dinner with friends and have a drink during the course of that meal. The drink is just that, ONE drink over the course of a 1.5 to 2hr meal stop. At 200lbs & 1 drink with a meal over a 2 hour period (on occasion) I know I am fine.

As I said, perhaps you missed it, alcohol is a central nervous system depressant. The very FIRST layer of the nervous system it affects is your judgment. You think you are fine. That's what it is. Think. But please drink away and ride.... One drink probably won't affect you. Probably.

Just for the record, in Sweden, ANY alcohol in your bloodstream during a traffic stop is an automatic lifetime license suspension. Automatic. Without appeal.

I am not sure why you are so emotionally defending your right to drink and drive, unless, gasp, perhaps there are a FEW times when you, by golly, actually have TWO, or maybe THREE drinks and it is not quite 2 hours but oops, 20 minutes before you drive. But you know the truth, and you have to live with it. Not me.

 

[Cal24Rallymaster]

WRONG! It is my right and duty as a citizen to prevent an impaired driver from putting myself and others in danger..... YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO RISK THE LIVES OF OTHERS WITH YOUR IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR. Driving and riding are privileges, and there is no constitutional right to drive drunk.

You don't have a constitutional right to drive at all. So what about all the other factors that can effect your ability to concentrate and ride at your best? I mean, why stop at having a beer? What about having a fight with your spouse? What about when your boss has been on your butt all week? And of course you don't have the same reaction time when your 40 as you do when your 20, so you should be stopping everyone over 40 from riding too. And don't forget, some individuals are just naturally better at riding than others.

All of these situations would impair a riders abilities, probably as much or more than having a small amount of alcohol. Valentino Rossi most likely has better control of his bike after having a beer than any of us do completely sober.

According to the DMV chart, I can have a a drink a hour for several hours and still be well under the limit, even for having CDL. Would I be impaired? Of course I would not be at the level I would be without any alcohol, but I would still be miles ahead of my 84 year old father when he is sober.

The point is that if you go down the path of insisting that no one operate a motor vehicle at less than their absolute top condition, then none of us are going to be doing much riding.

 

[167mph]

If you are going to drink and drive/ ride you are better off playing russian roulette with a loaded single shot pistol.

This way you SAVE LIVES in the process.

 

[sliverstorm]

Just for the record, in Sweden, ANY alcohol in your bloodstream during a traffic stop is an automatic lifetime license suspension. Automatic. Without appeal.

Wait. Any, period? How sensitive are those meters?

The reason I ask is contact with rubbing alcohol, and a few other substances, can raise your BAC a little bit. Not anything like 0.08%, but if you can loose your licence for 0.00001% ...

Kind of like opium testing. You can't (or, well, shouldn't) attach automatic no-questions-asked massive life changing repercussions to testing positive for opium. Eating poppy seeds can make you test positive, and there's nothing wrong with poppy seeds that we know of.

 

[Xof711]

Wait. Any, period? How sensitive are those meters?

The reason I ask is contact with rubbing alcohol, and a few other substances, can raise your BAC a little bit. Not anything like 0.08%, but if you can loose your licence for 0.00001% ...

Kind of like opium testing. You can't (or, well, shouldn't) attach automatic no-questions-asked massive life changing repercussions to testing positive for opium. Eating poppy seeds can make you test positive, and there's nothing wrong with poppy seeds that we know of.

Yeah no... Sweden allows 0.02% (up to 6 months imprisonment), 0.10% (imprisonment, maximum 2 years).

Here is the list of countries with zero tolerance > https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content

 

[Xof711]

As I said, perhaps you missed it, alcohol is a central nervous system depressant. The very FIRST layer of the nervous system it affects is your judgment. You think you are fine. That's what it is. Think. But please drink away and ride.... One drink probably won't affect you. Probably.

Just for the record, in Sweden, ANY alcohol in your bloodstream during a traffic stop is an automatic lifetime license suspension. Automatic. Without appeal.

I am not sure why you are so emotionally defending your right to drink and drive, unless, gasp, perhaps there are a FEW times when you, by golly, actually have TWO, or maybe THREE drinks and it is not quite 2 hours but oops, 20 minutes before you drive. But you know the truth, and you have to live with it. Not me.

You need to check your facts bro instead of using BS as compelling arguments!!

 

[KeyMan]

OK, I'm getting slightly annoyed at the ignorance I see here. I have asked nicely for those who wish to detract to do it elsewhere.

Enough is enough.

Will a mod please lock this thread.