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Express lanes are making bank

I can say that past several times I've been on the road and the express lanes were closed for maintenance, and these were on Sundays, traffic was noticeably more congested.

At the same time, I always marveled at the folks taking the express lanes at times of light traffic. As if they simply have no consideration of the cost.

If I were to take the full express lane during a morning commute, the toll is over $20, one way. Even during the weekends $5-10.
 
mercurial said:
IMO toll roads seem to create the right incentives? There is an ever expanding crush of people moving to the central valley and clogging our freeway system on their mega commutes. Those of us living in the closer bay area, are effectively punished for their middle-of-nowhere suburban tract home, boat and 3 car garage lifestyle. If you can't afford to live the suburban lifestyle reasonably close to where you work, you're supposed to live in multi-family housing.
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:laughing:thumbup:laughing

ctwo said:
Back of envelope calculation reveals that if I used the few miles of extortion lanes on my commute, I'd pay roughly 5 grand a year.

They comprise ~12% of my commute miles, and typically ~40% of my commute time when not used.
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Well but you got a boat for only $5000 :x
 
berth said:
I can say that past several times I've been on the road and the express lanes were closed for maintenance, and these were on Sundays, traffic was noticeably more congested.

At the same time, I always marveled at the folks taking the express lanes at times of light traffic. As if they simply have no consideration of the cost.

If I were to take the full express lane during a morning commute, the toll is over $20, one way. Even during the weekends $5-10.
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Perhaps they're just turning their number up to 3 and taking their chances...how many had very dark windows?
 
berth said:
Actually, the +3 lane doesn't seem to get much use.
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I don't get out much, but I see lanes that require a transponder. You can use the lane at full cost without one, or set it to 2 or 3. 3 is free, as are motorcycles (for now, but you have to use a transponder set to 3).

The lanes around here are not tolled after 8pm or weekends.
 
ctwo said:
Back of envelope calculation reveals that if I used the few miles of extortion lanes on my commute, I'd pay roughly 5 grand a year.

They comprise ~12% of my commute miles, and typically ~40% of my commute time when not used.
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A tax indeed, understanding earned income paid to a taxing authority translates to hours worked for that taxing authorities benefit. In short: the pay / toll system where non toll lanes aren't added, but reduced, is a system of voluntary servitude enhanced by the manufactured "traffic jams".
 
What's more American than creating situations then profiting from what you created?

My brother had a fellow fighter pilot in Germany whose father profited greatly by first getting a patent on that brake light in the rear window then getting laws passed to require them in manufactured cars. He made $$$$$$$$ off of that.
 
am super conflicted about this. spent my entire career in the bay area, and took very good advantage of the incredible opportunity there. hit the wall though, and took the money and ran. now, when i have to go back, can hardly tolerate the environment, and wonder at how i was able to do it for so long. it’s soul sapping.

that said, am at a loss for what i’d do different if i were responsible for managing and maintaining the infrastructure for such a dense mass of humanity. no easy task. do nothing or do something. no matter what choice you make, every single decision is ripe for criticism.
 
The Bay area has gone downhill since I first came there in the late 80's.
SF got so bad that during my last 10 years there I couldn't stand to go into the city, avoiding a city that I used to go into 5-6 days a week when I was first in California.

And the petty politics of all of those little fiefdoms in the East Bay really made the cities much less than they could have been, with a few profiting and screwing everybody else in the cities.
 
I’ve always disliked going into SF. These days, I have to do so much more than at any time previously.
 
ctwo said:
I don't get out much, but I see lanes that require a transponder. You can use the lane at full cost without one, or set it to 2 or 3. 3 is free, as are motorcycles (for now, but you have to use a transponder set to 3).

The lanes around here are not tolled after 8pm or weekends.
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I never have a transponder on my bike and have never seen a bill or a ticket.
 
budman said:
I never have a transponder on my bike and have never seen a bill or a ticket.
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Strong same. I just make sure the plates are correct in the FasTrak website interface and never get a bill, except for bridges, where I'm tolled at the HOV rate in the HOV lanes, and at the full rate in the non-HOV lanes.

They've done studies showing that the express lanes decrease traffic by incentivizing carpooling and ride sharing, which removes cars from the road, as well as providing an incentive for private busses (despite how much I hate them in the HOV) to be utilized. If you take away the limited access lane, it just provokes _more_ traffic, as more cars fit on the road in the broader spots, but then have to fit through the same width chokepoints like bridges, interchanges, etc.

https://reason.org/commentary/priced-express-lanes-proven-to-reduce-congestion/ lays it out pretty well.
 
Honestly I am not buying that they reduce traffic where I drive for my job.
101 and 580 mostly. I see the express lanes (for the most part) flowing nicely while the others are stacked.

I have to believe there are many codgers like me that will only use it if I have too. I will spend an extra 15 minutes driving as long as I am not late for something. So I actually plan ahead to allow more time to NOT pay the Gubement any more than I have too. :teeth
 
cheez said:
Strong same. I just make sure the plates are correct in the FasTrak website interface and never get a bill, except for bridges, where I'm tolled at the HOV rate in the HOV lanes, and at the full rate in the non-HOV lanes.

They've done studies showing that the express lanes decrease traffic by incentivizing carpooling and ride sharing, which removes cars from the road, as well as providing an incentive for private busses (despite how much I hate them in the HOV) to be utilized. If you take away the limited access lane, it just provokes _more_ traffic, as more cars fit on the road in the broader spots, but then have to fit through the same width chokepoints like bridges, interchanges, etc.

https://reason.org/commentary/priced-express-lanes-proven-to-reduce-congestion/ lays it out pretty well.
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I've seen posts where MC was billed. From the horse's mouf: "Each vehicle traveling on a tolled bridge, express lane or road is required to have a properly mounted transponder. " -https://fastrak.org/faq/ You could probably screw a lot of hookers before you get AIDS.

As to the article,

"The Los Angeles-Orange County metro area once again ranked worst, by a wide margin, in chronic freeway congestion in the Texas A&M Transportation Institute’s 2019 Urban Mobility Report. The region had the worst traffic delays per auto commuter — 119 hours a year; highest congestion costs per auto commuter — $2,440 a year; most regional hours of traffic delays — 971 million hours per year; and worst total direct costs of congestion (in wasted time and fuel) — $17.8 billion per year.

...

The only proven way to reduce freeway congestion is priced express lanes, which were pioneered 25 years ago on Orange County’s SR 91."

Just saying it doesn't make it true. It's also not universal. Where is the support for the claim? What was the control? Where is the real study/evidence?

I bet if the tool lanes on 101 running from MV through wherever that nonsense ends were converted to regular lanes would increase traffic flow. I think so because when they built the new lanes, before they turned on the tolls, traffic flew through that area. The second they turned on the tolls, traffic jammed up. AND, so the area that sucks particularly bad, including the sucky metering light, is avoided by diverting congestion to surface streets. The major intersections and overpasses in those areas are major CFs.

Yesterday, I saw an 18 wheeler in the left toll lane.
 
I use them during the week when I'm visiting customers. Company reimburses me. I'm paid to be in front of customers, not sit in traffic. I don't have a vehicle that qualifies for the commute lane.
 
ctwo said:
I've seen posts where MC was billed. From the horse's mouf: "Each vehicle traveling on a tolled bridge, express lane or road is required to have a properly mounted transponder. " -https://fastrak.org/faq/
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They have to bill all of the vehicles that travel in those lanes, whether they have a transponder or not. For that, they use the license plate.

If your license plate is registered, then the transponder is moot, save for that "+3" button. But the "+3" button, at least down here, is not necessary for motorcycles to use the toll lanes.

They have your license number, they know you're a motorcycle, and they can not guarantee the operation of the transponder anyway.

If you get billed, then appeal it.
 
ctwo said:
I've seen posts where MC was billed. From the horse's mouf: "Each vehicle traveling on a tolled bridge, express lane or road is required to have a properly mounted transponder. " -https://fastrak.org/faq/ You could probably screw a lot of hookers before you get AIDS.

As to the article,

"The Los Angeles-Orange County metro area once again ranked worst, by a wide margin, in chronic freeway congestion in the Texas A&M Transportation Institute’s 2019 Urban Mobility Report. The region had the worst traffic delays per auto commuter — 119 hours a year; highest congestion costs per auto commuter — $2,440 a year; most regional hours of traffic delays — 971 million hours per year; and worst total direct costs of congestion (in wasted time and fuel) — $17.8 billion per year.

...

The only proven way to reduce freeway congestion is priced express lanes, which were pioneered 25 years ago on Orange County’s SR 91."

Just saying it doesn't make it true. It's also not universal. Where is the support for the claim? What was the control? Where is the real study/evidence?

I bet if the tool lanes on 101 running from MV through wherever that nonsense ends were converted to regular lanes would increase traffic flow. I think so because when they built the new lanes, before they turned on the tolls, traffic flew through that area. The second they turned on the tolls, traffic jammed up. AND, so the area that sucks particularly bad, including the sucky metering light, is avoided by diverting congestion to surface streets. The major intersections and overpasses in those areas are major CFs.

Yesterday, I saw an 18 wheeler in the left toll lane.
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Ten years of commuting in the HOV lanes on bikes without transponders, half of that from Livermore into SF FiDi over the Bay Bridge, never billed wrongly for a toll. It’s unnecessary.
 
Climber said:
What's more American than creating situations then profiting from what you created?

My brother had a fellow fighter pilot in Germany whose father profited greatly by first getting a patent on that brake light in the rear window then getting laws passed to require them in manufactured cars. He made $$$$$$$$ off of that.
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Didn't know that about the 3rd brake light. The same thing is the backup sound: patented and then, written into law for the patented sound. Inventor = $$$.

littlebeast said:
that said, am at a loss for what i’d do different if i were responsible for managing and maintaining the infrastructure for such a dense mass of humanity. no easy task.
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The first task is easy. Super easy, actually. Sequester and control earmarked funds (gas taxes) for direct auto/ wheeled transportation benefit. That's road surfaces, bridges, traffic flow control (stop lights, etc), and other direct needs.

The condition of our roads shows this is not the case. Gas taxes are robbed for a multitude of non transpiration related funding needs.We could repave every surface in the state about every 6-8 years with current gas taxes at the highest paid rate for paving.

budman said:
Honestly I am not buying that they reduce traffic where I drive for my job.
101 and 580 mostly. I see the express lanes (for the most part) flowing nicely while the others are stacked.
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+1. I rarely see 2+ in cars and the carpool lane and almost never, 3+. Carpool lanes that moved to 3+ for sure are the worst idea yet.
 
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