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GS500 build thread... cf tanks, internal supercharger, etc

just a few questions...

since you are using half of the engine to basically "fill" the other wont you always be stuck at less then 100% atmospheric pressure (unless you think you can make a machine that has 100%+ efficient!)

[edit=forget the above, I just remembered 4 stroke = one intake per cycle while the compressor side with be doing 2 per cycle]

also IIRC the bottom end of a GS is very weak, im curious is you took any measures to remedy this.

also dont forget to install a large oil cooler, and id want to say a better oil pump, the GS had "adiqute" cooling but if you want it to last with any serious mods you need to up the ante on cooling!

also while on cooling... are you going to have some mechanism to cool the now compressed air from the compressor side?

I've had a pair of GS500"E"s over the years and they REALLY run like shit when one side is parasitic. I really am curious to see what would happen if all that LOSS where to actually goto making something.

engines are pretty complex machines, more so in the modern designs where they get into the vortex of air/fuel in the intake tracks and cyl.

you should go google ford IDI kinda of neat stuff.

I've been wanting to turbo an old bike and make a drag bike out of it :p
 
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could you use a compression release system based on one/more of the old valve to turn the compressor "off"
 
Starshooter10 said:
just a few questions...

since you are using half of the engine to basically "fill" the other wont you always be stuck at less then 100% atmospheric pressure (unless you think you can make a machine that has 100%+ efficient!)

[edit=forget the above, I just remembered 4 stroke = one intake per cycle while the compressor side with be doing 2 per cycle]

also IIRC the bottom end of a GS is very weak, im curious is you took any measures to remedy this.

also dont forget to install a large oil cooler, and id want to say a better oil pump, the GS had "adiqute" cooling but if you want it to last with any serious mods you need to up the ante on cooling!

also while on cooling... are you going to have some mechanism to cool the now compressed air from the compressor side?

I've had a pair of GS500"E"s over the years and they REALLY run like shit when one side is parasitic. I really am curious to see what would happen if all that LOSS where to actually goto making something.

engines are pretty complex machines, more so in the modern designs where they get into the vortex of air/fuel in the intake tracks and cyl.

you should go google ford IDI kinda of neat stuff.

I've been wanting to turbo an old bike and make a drag bike out of it :p
Click to expand...

I'm planning on getting it running and then seeing how things with the bottom end go. I know it's not the strongest, but I'm really not expecting huge power gains here. If I can coax out 20% more power than stock, I'll be happy. It's more about combining a step up in power with an increase in fuel efficiency. I wouldn't be surprised to see a larger increase in peak hp from the fuel injection/electronic timing controls than from the rest of the work. The compressor set up should broaden out the torque curve, bring power up a bit, but offer the potential for WAY better fuel economy.

I'll address oil cooling as needed as well. Those are somewhat ancillary issues to be looked at once I determine what the needs really are.

If I pop an engine in the process, so be it. They're cheap and available. Hell, I have three in my garage.
 
Starshooter10 said:
could you use a compression release system based on one/more of the old valve to turn the compressor "off"
Click to expand...

Easiest ways I can think of to turn the compressor "off" is to either open up a valve somewhere in the compressor cylinder(spark plug port is perfect for this) or by preventing the intake reed valve from sealing. Opening a valve at the spark plug port seems to be the easiest way to do this imo.
 
I wonder if you did this with a 600 I-4, making it a forced induction 300cc twin, what class(es) you could run in AFM?
 
AFM doesn't allow any form of forced induction, IIRC. You might be able to run some of the WERA classes though.
 
I was just reading the rulebook, but having some :confused with interpretation.
 

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cycle61 said:
I was just reading the rulebook, but having some :confused with interpretation.
Click to expand...

Basically, you can run a turbocharged 550cc motor in the 750cc class. You can't run a turbocharged 750cc in the 750cc class.


This project kinda blurs the lines of being supercharged though.
 
Engine-driven compressor. I think that's firmly in the "supercharged" camp.

And doing this to a literbike technically makes it a 500cc engine...legal for 750. :party
 
It's no longer a functioning piston in terms of generating power. So yes, a reciprocating supercharger, integrated into the block, driven directly off the crankshaft.

Lemme know if you want somebody to race this thing for you next year. ;)
 
cycle61 said:
It's no longer a functioning piston in terms of generating power. So yes, a reciprocating supercharger, integrated into the block, driven directly off the crankshaft.

Lemme know if you want somebody to race this thing for you next year. ;)
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, but I'm amused by the semantics of it.


I can just imagine going through tech...

"Well, you're supercharged, so you have to race up a division..."

"I am? Where's the supercharger?"

*Tech points to engine

"Well if that's the supercharger, where's the engine?"

*Tech points to engine

"..."
 
cycle61 said:
:laughing


But enough of this. ON WITH THE BUILD!!! :thumbup
Click to expand...

Fine!

tankcapbonded.jpg

Tank with the gas cap bonded into place. Same resin used for making the tank, thickened with glass microballoons. Hopefully no one will ever try to remove the screws holding the gas cap in place... they aren't going anywhere!

cffuelpumpmount.jpg

cf reinforcement for the fuel pump mount. Will be bonded to the bottom of the gas tank with studs running out the bottom for the fuel pump to mount to.

throttlebodies.jpg

The idle valve circled in red on the wrong throttle body. Tomorrow I'm going to the machine shop to do the work needed to put it on the right throttle body.

iacvclearance1.jpg

Plenty of clearance with the idle valve in place though. :thumbup
 
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this thread is so awesome.
i want to meet you and learn to do shit like this.
 
This is a really really cool project. You're extremely good at fabricating things.

But I also don't think it's going to work as well as we'd like.

If your goal is 20% more power than stock - on half the cylinders - then that means that the single cylinder is going to have make 2.2 times as much power as it had to do before in the same amount of time.

Essentially, your engine has to make 220% more power per cylinder. If you turbocharge a car, it doesn't get 220% more hp than N/A without extremely high levels of boost and an extremely built up engine - something like Ken Block's STIs (which makes 565 hp, not 2.2*300(assumed stock sti hp)=660)

So, you're going to have to force 2.2x as much fuel and air into that single combustion chamber, compress it 9:1 (so effectively a 2.2*9=19.8:1 ratio) without premature combustion, and then convert that extremely rapid expansion of gas into kinetic energy without mechanical failure of components designed for .45 times as much stress.

I don't think that part will work. But, if anyone can make this run, it's you - it looks like you're really really good at building stuff. This build is amazing and maybe you can get super mpg out of it.

Flamesuit....
 
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mllcb42 said:
If you feel like your education is lacking something, go out and find what you're missing. I'd never be able to tackle a lot of my engineering projects without the machining background I have from working at techshop and the rapid prototyping background from the academy of art; at least not in a way I'd be satisfied with.
Click to expand...

How did you actually learn to use the machines? Did you have previous experience or did you learn it at the shop you're doing your work at currently?

What's rapid protyping btw?
 
Petelite said:
This is a really really cool project. You're extremely good at fabricating things.

But I also don't think it's going to work as well as we'd like.

If your goal is 20% more power than stock - on half the cylinders - then that means that the single cylinder is going to have make 2.2 times as much power as it had to do before in the same amount of time.

Essentially, your engine has to make 220% more power per cylinder. If you turbocharge a car, it doesn't get 220% more hp than N/A without extremely high levels of boost and an extremely built up engine - something like Ken Block's STIs (which makes 565 hp, not 2.2*300(assumed stock sti hp)=660)

So, you're going to have to force 2.2x as much fuel and air into that single combustion chamber, compress it 9:1 (so effectively a 2.2*9=19.8:1 ratio) without premature combustion, and then convert that extremely rapid expansion of gas into kinetic energy without mechanical failure of components designed for .45 times as much stress.

I don't think that part will work. But, if anyone can make this run, it's you - it looks like you're really really good at building stuff. This build is amazing and maybe you can get super mpg out of it.

Flamesuit....
Click to expand...

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2009/01/12/ducati-v-one-twin-to-supercharged-single-conversion/

The 498cc single has 15 HP more than the original twin putting out 102 HP at the rear wheel, torque is increased and it runs fine to 10,000 rpm, 2500 rpm over stock.
Click to expand...

Possible i guess
 
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