ob1ventura
Active member
Might consider some therapy Jeff. Not healthy hanging on to all that hate especially when it is directed toward just some dude on a bike.
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Harley-Davidson says goodbye to the XR1200
- Thread starter MC BumSlap
- Start date
Might consider some therapy Jeff. Not healthy hanging on to all that hate especially when it is directed toward just some dude on a bike.
Sons of Anarchy has made more young people want to ride Harleys than anything HD has done
And you don't think they've had a hand in that at all? :|
Occasionally, people get it.
It's true.
I never understand why people have to love one and hate the other. I love race bikes, I love the sport of Moto racing. Motogp, trials, mx, it's all badass.
The other day I was in the dealership looking at the new forty eight. Man those fat ass front tires, stripped down look, so sweet
Thank you. This is exactly how I feel about the situation, too.
When they stop building the bikes in America, the price will come down. When they stop hand forming and finishing the tanks, the price will come down. Triumph and Moto Guzzi don't do this and don't build in America. This is why they're cheaper. In fact, I think all the retro Triumphs are built in Taiwan now. :|
My BMW stinks. But only when I first fire it up.
gixxerjeff
Optimistic Underdog
Might consider some therapy Jeff. Not healthy hanging on to all that hate especially when it is directed toward just some dude on a bike.
"I'm not crazy, my mom had me tested."
ohio
Active member
That's going to be shocking news to Honda, Toyota, BMW, and Mercedes.
An Iron 883 retails at $8k. Harley's cost has very little to do with the geography of their production, though they did their best to politicize that at the expense of Milwaukee. All of the Hondas larger than 250cc imported into the US are built in Japan, which has equal or higher costs of materials, energy and labor, plus transport to deal with. Harley's costs are driven by three things:
- Highly customized product - while they don't have THAT many platforms the number of variations coming off the line creates low volume runs within high overall volume. Combine high-degree of hand-finishing with semi-custom product and you will have high production costs.
- Highest gross margins in the business - necessary to support their extremely high operational (i.e. marketing) costs
- Demand - customers are willing to pay it. Why would they risk the margins on a $25k bike by undercutting it with $6k bikes that are similar?
Again, I like Harleys. I've had some great times on an 883 sportster (I know, girl's bike). It is my giant vibrator of choice when I want to take a velocity-averse gal up the coast. I like their aesthetic, their function, and their legacy. I don't like business failure, and that's what I keep seeing in their expansion efforts. They only have so long to figure this out.
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I hear Harley is discontinuing the xr1200x.
Nightster to. But I only read that confirmed in a euro blog, but on HD's site, content is disappearing.
You're misunderstanding the point I'm making. It's about the workers that make them. There's more to assembling a Harley than you'd think. It'd do you some good to watch the National Geographic Channel's special on the HD factory. I've seen the one for Ducati and Honda as well...they don't do nearly as much physical work building their bikes. It's mostly done by machines. Not at Harley. You have to pay someone to do all that work, and it's probably union too. Big bucks. I thought I read somewhere that even Honda's car manufacturing in the U.S. is staunchly anti-union. Good luck with that at Harley.
There's a really good older book I enjoyed reading back in the day called Well Made in America (1991 IIRC). It's also on audio still I think. The story is about how Vaughn Beals and a team left AMF in a buy-back to run the Company until it was re-structured as a hand built independent MC company again. Vaughn (who is in the AMA hall of Fame HERE) talked about what made HD so unique, and the challenges of re-introducing quality into the manufacturing process that started with the line worker. Excellent read, and a real tribute to how business in America should be. I liked the audio book a little more, because Vaughn added a lot that wasn't in the book.
Here's the Amazon linky: Well Made in America
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R1-Limited
New member
Humm, I guess the ama could not help this time drum up sales by creating a special class for them like they tried with the 883 class in Dirt Tracking.
I never liked that bike anyway and could not figure out why people where drawn to it. As that is about as much a XR750 replica as Rush Limbaugh is a Liberal.
I never liked that bike anyway and could not figure out why people where drawn to it. As that is about as much a XR750 replica as Rush Limbaugh is a Liberal.
ohio
Active member
Sorry, man, you're picking an argument with the wrong guy here. See my post again. Your argument IS my second point, but that's only part of it. The other two points are critical.
First and foremost they price to a market that will pay for it. That's just smart business. Why would you sell a product for less than you have to when you sell out? Blame the customer for the high prices, not the company.
Second, they don't cost that much to make. The numbers are right in their annual report. H-D runs by far the highest gross margin in the business. Honda builds a bike for $10k, sells it to dealer for $12.5k, dealer sells it for $15k. Harley builds a bike for $10k, sells it to dealer for $15k, Dealer sells it for $18k (not including accessories).
The last point (which you describe) is the complexity of building semi custom bikes, which drives higher part cost and labor hours. Both are a function of product decisions. Labor rates are a footnote here. These bikes would cost the same to build in Japan and very close in a non-union shop because that is how you have to build semi-custom bikes.
Again, if you want proof, look at the 883 iron ($8k) for two points. First, it's easy to build a cheap Harley, just eliminate the options. The parts don't cost much. Second, its mfg cost is within (edit: probably) $100 of the forty-eight which sell for $2,500 more. You're looking at value-based pricing, not cost-based. In fact, if I were going to congratulate H-D on their business acumen, it would be on this front, where they are playing chess against the other manufacturer's checkers.
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ohio
Active member
That's my point. The difference between the 883 and 1200 engines is probably in the neighborhood of $10 in parts cost.
The same principal is true though not to such an extreme with 600 I4s vs 1000I4s, it's just that Harley is most aggressive about it. Margins are significantly lower on supersports than superbikes because the cost of manufacture is actually similar for the two.
The same principal is true though not to such an extreme with 600 I4s vs 1000I4s, it's just that Harley is most aggressive about it. Margins are significantly lower on supersports than superbikes because the cost of manufacture is actually similar for the two.
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motobecane10
beandip
oh them iron horsies are assembled in the USA but thats where it ends.
MC BumSlap
Big Belly Bum Scud
I thought final assembly was in England?!
VicTim
Well-known member
