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HID and LED

Although I think the new Mercedes CLS has LED headlights, in general, coming from biking where people have been hacking around with LED lights forever (since you don't exactly have an alternator so efficiency is key), the biggest problem with LED lights is that they have less "throw" and they just don't seem to provide good depth perception either.

I've been doing some research for replacement turn signals, etc., but ran across these newer lights at BikeVis which are made by Cree.

I've been considering TIR3s or Nova SLMINIs for rear turn signals.

If you really want to dive in on LEDs and discuss the merits, the obsessives hang around at candlepowerforums.com.
 
True enough, but when does the output become too much? When HID kits putting out over 2000 Lumens are so darned bright that your pupils shrink and compromise your night vision in the darkness around you, what new hazards are created?

Excellent questions. Most never even consider them. That's why reflector design is so, so important. Reflectors for halogens are designed to work within the limits of halogen bulbs and spread a fair amount of light relatively close to the vehicle. When you stick HIDs in a halogen housing, you get a huge increase in the brightness of the light relatively close to the vehicle and not as much as you'd like further down the road which is why you bought the kit to begin with. Remember, halogens don't put out as much light, so when the reflector is designed, they try to get a fair amount of light way out in front, but it's a losing battle, so they spread the rest out closer to the vehicle. This means that the reflector puts different percentages of light in different areas based on the type of bulb being used. Put that HID bulb in there and you get a huge increase in the light closer up but further out, not as much of an increase as you'd like. The result is that because it's SO bright up close, your pupils close up more and you can't actually see as well into the distance. Most especially at the fringes of the light pattern where cars might be entering from side roads, or other hazards might appear in the partial dark.

Bottom line is that most people think they can see better with he HID retrofits but the reality is they're seriously compromising their distance vision at night. They just don't realize it.
 
True enough, but when does the output become too much?

This argument that HID lighting has so many Lumens that it makes your pupils close-up is only valid from the point that when a "real" HID bulb & ballast set-up is placed inside a housing that was designed for exclusively for a halogen bulb and hot spots in the spread pattern can occur and diminish the purpose of increased lighting in the first place. (Or even worse, blind others). However, many projector beam head light designs will take HID bulbs with no real problems for the most part and work just fine. Testing.

When HID kits putting out over 2000 Lumens are so darned bright that your pupils shrink and compromise your night vision in the darkness around you, what new hazards are created?

Well, certainly no bigger a driving hazard than the LED lights shown here in this video on Twisted Throttle's site which don't use a cut-off design pattern in the housing all-while making the claim (in the video) that they are brighter then the low beam light which HAS a cut-off pattern design and this light is not pointed at the camera. So, they have these LEDs mounted high-up on the DR650 and shining directly into the camera lens trying to make people think that it's some Mega-Watt LED lighting technology thats SO much brighter than the low beam, all-the-while creating a potentially blinding situation for the on-coming traffic which then has the potential to cause annoyance to on-coming traffic or even worse, a collision. Now on the flip-side of that argument, you could say that from the glare caused-by dispersion of these lights you actually have a better chance of being seen by on-coming traffic so then you'd just need to switch them off in time and that would decrease the chance of that occurring. Fair enough (even if I am arguing with myself):rant....:wtf....:teeth

Look, I'm not advocating HID here or trying to nay-say your LEDs. I'm just saying that people should consider the facts before adding lights and be informed about what and why they are adding lights. On my bikes, I use HID in only some-of my projector beam housings and Halogen in everything else. HID's certainly have their start-up drawbacks so on my touring bike, I use both HID and a halogen set-up, each, on a separate circuit so I'm never without either. Look, someday my lower, fork-mounted, halogen-based, wide-spread PIAA driving lights will probably be converted to LEDs, but only when the right product hits the market. Hey, if ~450 lumens per driving light in a wide spread-pattern floats your boat, have at it, it's a free country.

The fact still remains that being able to see well in the dark still entirely depends on having a set of evenly-spread wavelengths of light that create good contrast....and thus, why competition night-time rally car teams still use rugged Halogen and or HID bulbs placed in nice BIG ROUND reflector housings and they put as many as their car can power and/or fit. Here's some pics of a half-dozen world-class rally cars that use that set-up with a majority of them using 2 driving lights mixed with 2 hi-beams or more.

Lastly, for the Harley guy that wants to dish out the cash for that $400 LED conversion bulb, it would behoove them to get some real facts about what their buying and better yet, test them side by side(at night). Who knows, without the actual data posted by HD, it's just a claim of BRIGHTER vs conventional?...whatever that means.
 
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Well, certainly no bigger a driving hazard than the LED lights shown here in this video on Twisted Throttle's site which don't use a cut-off design pattern in the housing all-while making the claim (in the video) that they are brighter then the low beam light...

I know it sounds like I'm trying to sell this kit, but I am not, and I do realize they are "off-road" lights not approved for street use yet. But they do come with interchangeable lenses in 15 and 30 degree pattern spreads if ordered through Twisted Throttle, and if ordered through Solstice, a third 10 degree lens is provided. The review in MCN indicates the 15 degree lens provides appropriate beam patterns for the street while the 30 degree is more suitable for off-road. It stands to reason that the third 10 degree lens from Solstice might be even better suited for street lights, but if that were the case, you'd think TT would provide it too.

With everything included, it looks to me like the most comprehensive and effective LED moto kit available at this time. I am considering it for my RT, but would never even think about them for my Aprilia.
 
DYTB is correct. The quality of the light is more important than the lumen output. I have yet to see an LED setup that does not put out a narrow wavelength that makes vision taxing.
 
One of the reasons that LED's are not there yet when it comes to vehicle lighting. If they were, the vehicle manufactures would be jumping all over it because not only would it be a selling point, but LED's open up the door to a lot more design possibilities, from an aesthetic viewpoint.
 
Those Fuego HID's in black would look great on my Mini. And would make a nice replacement for the PIAA 910's I have on my ST. Hmmm.........
 
Thank you for all the great feedback! I think even with projector housing I will hold off on this investment...
 
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