Honda announces CRF450L

[IAmA M0t0r Ridεr]

Oh, its too close price wise to the much lighter Katoom 500 for me.
That said, they could make a rally version like the AJP PR7 [which is not California legal] and I think they would sell boat loads of them.
It would be much lighter than the 600cc AJP so basically have no competition in a very desired niche.

Imagine an of the show room floor replica of the 450 Paris Dakar bike!

New to this market. You're telling me you can't shop the aftermarket to get a bike looking like this? (any bike?)

 

[GilesD]

New to this market. You're telling me you can't shop the aftermarket to get a bike looking like this? (any bike?)

I mean if you are willing to throw enough money at a bike I guess you could...
The point is I wanted a 450L with those general looks for $11k range
Just like they did with the 250 Rally but with a proper engine in there.
I think with that they would be a step ahead of the competition rather than a step behind with a 450L that is 40lbs heavier than a 500 EXC and only $600 cheaper

 

[Jalopyshoppe]

Oh, its too close price wise to the much lighter Katoom 500 for me.

KTM is 255lbs sans fuel.
CRF is 289lbs full of fuel.

If you are going to grouse about 20lbs on a 300lb bike, you'd better be making money by riding it. Otherwise you're just fapping over a spec sheet.

 

[GilesD]

KTM is 255lbs sans fuel.
CRF is 289lbs full of fuel.

If you are going to grouse about 20lbs on a 300lb bike, you'd better be making money by riding it. Otherwise you're just fapping over a spec sheet.

Check your tone.I'm talking motorcycles not telling you what you should buy.
For the record, 34lbs difference according to ADV pulse
Way to much for a $600 difference in price while guaranteed the KTM will have better stock components and more power for me.

 

[J-Boat]

Check your tone.I'm talking motorcycles not telling you what you should buy.
For the record, 34lbs difference according to ADV pulse
Way to much for a $600 difference in price while guaranteed the KTM will have better stock components and more power for me.

Well, for the record, it does say “Preliminary” MSRP...

 

[Jalopyshoppe]

Check your tone.I'm talking motorcycles not telling you what you should buy.
For the record, 34lbs difference according to ADV pulse
Way to much for a $600 difference in price while guaranteed the KTM will have better stock components and more power for me.

Better stock components is a very subjective term. Nissan and Showa can make products of equal or better quality than Brembo or WP.
I'll hold my breath on power, but I think you're again getting hung up on a spec sheet instead of factoring in ownership costs and the like.

I'd place my bets firmly on Honda to make a more reliable and longer lasting product than KTM.
I don't think the vast majority of buyers of either bike have the skills to use 70% of either bike's capability, though. I will enjoy watching the KTM crowd get butthurt when a faster CRF owner roosts them.
For the record, I don't really dislike KTM's bikes at all, but the fan base is now as awful as Harley owners.
This argument could be about a new Indian challenging a Harley and you'd have a similarly enthusiastic battle.

 

[Surj]

I think with that they would be a step ahead of the competition rather than a step behind with a 450L that is 40lbs heavier than a 500 EXC and only $600 cheaper

Way to much for a $600 difference in price while guaranteed the KTM will have better stock components and more power for me.

You're making assumptions about what the market wants, apparently based on what you want.

Price difference and weight, and ok, power, aren't the only pieces of this equation. Most of the people I've talked to about it today get that "Honda reliability" plays a big, big part in the comparison of this bike versus a KTM.

Personally, I'll take better reliability over a bit lighter and faster every time. Realistically, if I placed that much value on ultimate low weight + performance and felt I had the skills to utilize such a bike, I'd have already bought a KTM.

I predict this bike will get close enough, performance-wise, for most riders given actual skills and usage, with all the inherent benefits its Honda-ness brings. And Fish is right that some people are overly focused on the spec sheet given their actual use. No need to get butt-hurt.

 

[OaklandF4i]

Check your tone.I'm talking motorcycles not telling you what you should buy.
For the record, 34lbs difference according to ADV pulse
Way to much for a $600 difference in price while guaranteed the KTM will have better stock components and more power for me.

For some the KTM will be a better fit. But if the L comes with the X's forks/shock and brakes as we are being told so far... they are similar parts from the R, you cant really make the claim the KTMs will come with better stock components. Valved and sprung differently for sure. But not inferior. White Power forks and shocks have come a long way from when they were inferior to anything from Showa or KYB. They are great units now. But superior? That could be a whole new thread.

KTM is now locking their street legal bike's ECUs and not even selling the offroad only ECUs unless you have vin to match it... they are not at peak performance off the showroom floor until you add a piggy back fueling unit of some sort. No where near ready to race without modification.

A lot of folks are quite frankly put off by the ready to race major engine service intervals. They dont race and are looking for something that will cost less to maintain. If the major service intervals of 20k are to believed for this new CRF450L, that will be a huge advantage over the KTM for a great many people and probably the single biggest selling point.

I'm not a KTM hater. I'll probably have FE350 in the near future. But that will be used by me as a more serious dirt bike than a dualsport and will need modification too before its a serious offroad machine. The Honda is advancing and eclipsing the traditional dual sport in many ways, and not a race bike with a plate.

 

[SFMCjohn]

The Honda is advancing and eclipsing the traditional dual sport in many ways, and not a race bike with a plate.

... advancing and eclipsing dual-sports where you start
your ride by unloading it from a truck, maybe ...

... went into Berkeley Yamaha this weekend to
see if they’d take a deposit on a T7 ... “nope!” arty

 

[OaklandF4i]

... advancing and eclipsing dual-sports where you start
your ride by unloading it from a truck, maybe ...

... went into Berkeley Yamaha this weekend to
see if they’d take a deposit on a T7 ... “nope!” arty

You need a truck John. And your KLR is an adventure light but not so light bike, not a dual sport.

I'll actually consider selling my Street Triple if the T7 lives up the hype and is priced reasonably. Could be a great all rounder for commuting and light adventuring. Might even be able to join you and Cootz for some trouble then!

If the CRF450L's motor has the longevity Honda is claiming it designed it for and what I think the potential for dieting it might have, its really a DRZ beater. Its a step forward from that in performance and weight wise with the reliability to match it. Its also a cheaper to maintain alternative to the KTM for those that dont race. I'm not its target audience as I will be just as fast and have just as much fun on my XR400R the few times I need a plate. Other wise I'll stick to my smoker offroad.

 

[SFMCjohn]

You need a truck John.

... I need a place to _park_ a truck ...
then maybe I could buy a truck
and a two stroke and learn how to ride ...

I'm not its target audience ...

... I’d just hurt myself ...

Honda: “OK, we’ve got the DRZ covered ...”

see you in Baja ... arty

 

[Surj]

...your KLR is an adventure light but not so light bike, not a dual sport.

A KLR is just an adventure. Not an adventure bike. Just an adventure.

 

[Junkie]

I'm used to engines with 2 oil rings and an expander between them, as well as 2 compression rings. I guess I don't work on enough new stuff.
As someone who resents the pumpkin crowd, if this bike manages to walk the right balance of performance and longevity, I'm all about it.
I can't say it'll replace my beloved CRF Rally. Something about that bike works well for me. I may have converted a couple DRZ owners at the Sheetiron with it.
Glad to see someone taking on the KTM/Husky market.

When I've mentioned number of rings here, I've meant number of ring grooves I guess.

MX bikes generally have 1 compression ring, and then 1 set of oil control rings (in one groove).

 

[redtail]

I predict this bike will get close enough, performance-wise...

I hope that is true and it should be at least on par with the CRF450X powerwise, in my opinion. I had a 2007 CRF450X and the motor, while enough to be entertaining, was soft on power for my tastes. To be fair, up to then I've always had mx bikes when riding off road.

 

[Junkie]

https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10 claims 3 rings vs 2, with air injection and a cat

but it also says:

Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm

that doesn't sound right to me, as that's 24.7hp/23.6ft*lb. as a comparison, they say the 250L has 24hp and 16.7ft*lb.

 

[banshee01]

https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10 claims 3 rings vs 2, with air injection and a cat

but it also says:

Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm

that doesn't sound right to me, as that's 24.7hp/23.6ft*lb. as a comparison, they say the 250L has 24hp and 16.7ft*lb.

1000km for an oil change?

 

[Junkie]

1000km for an oil change?

that's likely the spec for when you're racing it

 

[Map8]

1000km oil change interval seems very reasonable for a modern, high performance 4-stroke single. 620 miles. I imagine oil capacity is just one liter or so.

No way racing 4-stroke 450cc singles are going 620 miles between oil changes. Racing would demand oil changes every few hours which would translate into an oil change after every race weekend.

 

[Blankpage]

1000km for an oil change?

Thats why I bought the ktm 690 Enduro when I was looking for a dual sport, 10,000 Km recommended oil change interval.


For anyone who thinks I crossed a red (or orange) line by mentioning ktm well then

 

[banshee01]

1000km oil change interval seems very reasonable for a modern, high performance 4-stroke single. 620 miles. I imagine oil capacity is just one liter or so.

No way racing 4-stroke 450cc singles are going 620 miles between oil changes. Racing would demand oil changes every few hours which would translate into an oil change after every race weekend.

I guess i was hoping this bike would just be a larger crf250l. I am looking for something to replace my wr250r so i dont need a high performance motor. I want around 300lbs, FI, and 6 speed. If the drz400 was FI and 6 speed i would take that bike in a heart beat.