How's your Oh-bama care working?

[morthrane]

Well said. We should follow their example.

So, we should follow their example and and discover that somewhere down the road that the free lunch tab must be paid, in full? Better look at the underlying health of Britain's economy before you jump too far off the ideological diving board.

This thread is fucking retarded-- it is the "can't understand math" utopists vs. "this shit ain't working!" wolf-crying-after-everyone-got-eaten.

Any which way you cut it, health care across the world is fucking broken.

 

[afm199]

blah blah blah comrade blah blah blah russia blah blah blah.

dude, I am sorry. You said things were better where health care was cheaper, and I pointed out the opposite. Sorry to burst your baloon, but you guys who believe so strongly in the left and the unions don't really have a yardstick to measure reality with anyway, just a firm belief in God presented as the current socialist model.

 

[afm199]

...

The waits for care in Canada are getting better, but compared to the quality I get down here with Kaiser, the care up there is lousy. A lot of the wealthy Canadians I've met have additional coverage for private practice health care or plan to go abroad for treatment.
.

One of my canadian friends makes a very good living selling extended coverage policies for Canada, so that you can actually get the treatment you need when it is needed, not a year later.

 

[morthrane]

Except when have we ever cut spending on education? If its supposed to be paying off, why are americans getting dumber?

Its the definition of insanity-- keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result.

Don't confuse education with day care nanny bullshit. You can lead anyone to education, but ultimately they can only educate themselves. If they aren't willing...

*shrug*

 

[wazzuFreddo]

Really? With an entitled populace on permanent dole, basically free health care, a defense budget mostly paid by the US ( as most of Europe's is), and high taxes, you might really consider it modified Eurosocialism. Which is not working out all that well for most of the countries there, unless they have oil income.

I'm not European, I don't plan on being European so who gives a damn if they are socialists. They could be facist anarchists, it still wouldn't change the fact that I don't own a car.

 

[afm199]

I'm not European, I don't plan on being European so who gives a damn if they are socialists. They could be facist anarchists, it still wouldn't change the fact that I don't own a car.

I hear, you. I don't own a condo and never would join a church. In fact I know a socialist and he has a beard. The anarcho fascists are worse, they all read Mao and think Obama is a white supremacist.

 

[weak_link]

dude, I am sorry. You said things were better where health care was cheaper, and I pointed out the opposite. Sorry to burst your baloon, but you guys who believe so strongly in the left and the unions don't really have a yardstick to measure reality with anyway, just a firm belief in God presented as the current socialist model.

Free stuff. Give it here. Now.

 

[spddrcr]

Because most of the companies admit that they are raising to compensate. But I know you believe a free lunch for thirty million Americans is a good idea, as long as you don't have to pay for it and I do.

prove they were not going to raise rates, it cant be done and history over the last ten years pretty much proves that blue cross/blue shield was going to anyways. The mount diablo unified school district teachers have had their rates rise on average 200.00 a year for the last 10 years, while the pay rates have stayed the same even though they were supposed to increase to cover cost of living and rate hikes. we are close to 1800 a month for a family of 4 and i have Medicare myself.
I didn't vote for obama nor do i like his style of politics but something has to happen with health care as the average working class people can no longer afford it.
how about taking care of the real problem that has the biggest effect on health care in america?

 

[afm199]

prove they were not going to raise rates, it cant be done and history over the last ten years pretty much proves that blue cross/blue shield was going to anyways. The mount diablo unified school district teachers have had their rates rise on average 200.00 a year for the last 10 years, while the pay rates have stayed the same even though they were supposed to increase to cover cost of living and rate hikes. we are close to 1800 a month for a family of 4 and i have Medicare myself.
I didn't vote for obama nor do i like his style of politics but something has to happen with health care as the average working class people can no longer afford it.
how about taking care of the real problem that has the biggest effect on health care in america?

I am aware of the rate raises. I saw my kaiser average 10% a year increase for thirty years, most of which happened in the last five years. However you're quite naive if you think the companies are not raising rates as much as they can to compensate for the new influx of members who won't be denied coverage for pre existing conditions.

Of course they were going to raise rates, they just doubled the raise.

Yes health care is a shame and travesty and something needs to be done. However the Obamaplan has done nothing to change the impact on the middle class, it just pulled in a cohort of more expensive people that the rest of us have to fund. Pre existing conditions are now grandfathered in, which will prove to be enormously expensive, and the 30 million without insurance and now getting it thanks to you and me.

Nothing wrong with healthcare reform, obamacare was not reform, it just added more burden to those who already have insurance.

 

[Human Ills]

The huge amount of money we put into health care has also been a huge driver in the development of new treatments. It may not be driven in the direction we want (toward short term symptom treatment and viagra), but there's no doubt that per capita, the US is the biggest innovator in medical tech.

Innovation is the strongest argument for the capitalist model. I'd trade technological stagnation for universal coverage in a heartbeat.

 

[Human Ills]

So, we should follow their example and and discover that somewhere down the road that the free lunch tab must be paid, in full? Better look at the underlying health of Britain's economy before you jump too far off the ideological diving board.

This thread is fucking retarded-- it is the "can't understand math" utopists vs. "this shit ain't working!" wolf-crying-after-everyone-got-eaten.

Any which way you cut it, health care across the world is fucking broken.

Our economy is in shambles, what's your point?

 

[afm199]

Innovation is the strongest argument for the capitalist model. I'd trade technological stagnation for universal coverage in a heartbeat.

Yep. I'd forgo vaccines, xray, MRIs, antibiotics and shit like that for a chance to have assured free leach treatment and cold sheet wraps.

 

[VTRZA]

Yep. I'd forgo vaccines, xray, MRIs, antibiotics and shit like that for a chance to have assured free leach treatment and cold sheet wraps.

 

[MrIncredible]

Yep. I'd forgo vaccines, xray, MRIs, antibiotics and shit like that for a chance to have assured free leach treatment and cold sheet wraps.

 

[Human Ills]

Yep. I'd forgo vaccines, xray, MRIs, antibiotics and shit like that for a chance to have assured free leach treatment and cold sheet wraps.

I said technological stagnation. We already have vaccines, xray, MRIs, antibiotics and the like. English your native language?

 

[MrIncredible]

I said technological stagnation. We already have vaccines, xray, MRIs, antibiotics and the like. English your native language?

So currently we've set it up so we can live long enough and cure enough diseases. Let's not research any more or anything.

Sounds great unless you get cancer.

 

[T-1 Thunder]

Blasphemy!
The messiah can do no wrong.










We're overdue for a George Bush bashing thread. Those are much funner because we have all the great material to work with, like when he stutters and stuff.

 

[morthrane]

Bush was too easy a target.

 

[T-1 Thunder]

A man that can not form a complete sentence - yet had the power to steer hurricanes by his sheer hatred of black folks!

 

[Joebar4000]

Really? With an entitled populace on permanent dole, basically free health care, a defense budget mostly paid by the US ( as most of Europe's is), and high taxes, you might really consider it modified Eurosocialism. Which is not working out all that well for most of the countries there, unless they have oil income.

HA!

About 2 million perma-unemployed in the UK, compared to what, 30 million here? Even with the difference in populace, the US, ironically, has much higher entitlement spending than the UK - can't speak for most of the rest of Europe.

Besides, govt. handouts to the poor != socialism.

There is no super-tax in Europe that keeps the rich on a level playing field with the rest of the populace. Classism is alive and well. The gap between the rich and the poor isn't QUITE as large as here, but it's hardly like Joe Schmoe Layabout is on parity financial standing with the CEO of Astra Zeneca.

What I paid in taxes in the UK MORE than made up for what I pay/will pay here directly to discrete retirement/further education/health care.

Fact is, I got more, for less, in the UK.

The capitalist model is great for reducing costs and improving value-for-money for things considered discretionary, but it sucks big fat donkey balls for things any civilised nation considers essential to raise the quality of life for everyone - emergency services, further education, health care, infrastructure. For these things, private corps have proven time and again to charge the ass out of the populace and offer levels of service that are at best, comparable, but frequently worse. Witness the shambles that was British Rail going to hell in a handbasket after privatizationm, etc. ad nauseum. "Oh, BR is going to be so much better in private hands"

And really, them poor ole Euro's couldn't fight our way out of a wet paper bag without good ole Uncle Sam to help - give me a fucking break:

"The British Armed Forces have the third highest declared expenditure of any military in the world, only behind the United States and the People's Republic of China.[5]"

What the US contributes to NATO has largely been spent in Iraq in recent years, and in missile defence systems/cold war deterrents based in Europe. The US has contributed more to NATO because of selfish interests, not because of some altruistic 'helping my fellow man' reason.