I changed my tune on electronics

[kuksul08]

For many years I scoffed at electronic aides on a motorcycle. Growing up riding dirt bikes and street bikes with no electronics it was just fine. All you need is good throttle and brake control.

But after riding some modern bikes with ABS and traction control, I would recommend it to every rider out there - beginner or expert.

Whether it's an emergency braking situation, or unexpected debris in the road, having that safety net prevents crashes and lets you explore the limits of traction more safely.

At the same time, there are some possible downsides. Do you think having electronics will produce worse riders, that haven't learned the careful throttle and brake control to maintain traction? I am still torn on this part.

 

[splat]

I've known of riders who've started off with ABS and cannot ride anything without it. They assume they'll receive instant death if they go faster than 15mph on a bike without. It's a different mindset if you're accustomed to a touted safety feature and when you go to upgrade bikes most of then don't have that feature.

It's probably a combination of a lack of sense of security and lack of manipulation abilities.

 

[EastBayDave]

i must repeat the old saying, you must 1st ride dirt, to be safe on the street...

 

[kuksul08]

I've known of riders who've started off with ABS and cannot ride anything without it. They assume they'll receive instant death if they go faster than 15mph on a bike without. It's a different mindset if you're accustomed to a touted safety feature and when you go to upgrade bikes most of then don't have that feature.

It's probably a combination of a lack of sense of security and lack of manipulation abilities.

Its funny you mention that. If I go from a bike with ABS to without, I am definitely more cautious at first, and it takes some time to recalibrate.

 

[clutchslip]

.....
At the same time, there are some possible downsides. Do you think having electronics will produce worse riders, that haven't learned the careful throttle and brake control to maintain traction? I am still torn on this part.

Yes. And for proof, you just need to look at how people drive modern cars.

 

[kuksul08]

Yes. And for proof, you just need to look at how people drive modern cars.

Oy. Yeah....

After re-reading my OP it does contradict itself a little bit. I think the pros greatly outweigh the cons, but it's still worth discussing!

 

[budman]

Safety net yes.

An absolute must not really.

I discovered my wheelie control two rides ago. Lifted the front going over a cattle guard and I noticed a light parade on my dash. Guess I need to notch it down a bit more. Only one click left before it is off. This was the first time I saw it. I guess it has to do with wheel height.

 

[T100]

For many years I scoffed at electronic aides on a motorcycle. Growing up riding dirt bikes and street bikes with no electronics it was just fine. All you need is good throttle and brake control.

But after riding some modern bikes with ABS and traction control, I would recommend it to every rider out there - beginner or expert.

Whether it's an emergency braking situation, or unexpected debris in the road, having that safety net prevents crashes and lets you explore the limits of traction more safely.

At the same time, there are some possible downsides. Do you think having electronics will produce worse riders, that haven't learned the careful throttle and brake control to maintain traction? I am still torn on this part.

I'm not trying to be rude but, I am sitting here wondering,,,why you are thinking about this? My previous bike was a carbed, cable throttle, with single rotor disk brakes- no electronic aids.

Honestly, when I went to a modern bike with the RBW, ABS, & TC, I don't ride any differently than I did on the old bike, just because it has electronic "aids."

That said, I think that all motorcycles require precise throttle and braking inputs at all times, with or without electronic "aids." Otherwise, you can easily end up on the ground.

I wouldn't think that someone would ride any differently because they think that they can "depend" on one of these things to save them.

I know that I don't. I honestly never even think about them being there.

I suppose that they are nice to have, especially if you ride in rain or possibly icy conditions, which I don't do either of. I don't ride like a maniac either. Perhaps your question is more suited for those who do?

Sorry, I just don't.....???????

 

[bpw]

Yes. And for proof, you just need to look at how people drive modern cars.

Driving fatalities have plummeted over the last 50 years despite higher speeds and many more miles driven. I really doubt people are any worse (or better) at driving than 50 years ago, people don't really change much, but cars have changed a lot.

But, damn kids these days can't do anything, couldn't even crank start a car if they had to!

 

[kuksul08]

I'm not trying to be rude but, I am sitting here wondering,,,why you are thinking about this? My previous bike was a carbed, cable throttle, with single rotor disk brakes- no electronic aids.

Honestly, when I went to a modern bike with the RBW, ABS, & TC, I don't ride any differently than I did on the old bike, just because it has electronic "aids."

That said, I think that all motorcycles require precise throttle and braking inputs at all times, with or without electronic "aids." Otherwise, you can easily end up on the ground.

I wouldn't think that someone would ride any differently because they think that they can "depend" on one of these things to save them.

I know that I don't. I honestly never even think about them being there.

I suppose that they are nice to have, especially if you ride in rain or possibly icy conditions, which I don't do either of. I don't ride like a maniac either. Perhaps your question is more suited for those who do?

Sorry, I just don't.....???????

You don't need to ride like a maniac to reap the benefits of electronics. When well implemented, you won't even know they kicked in and you'll ride away looking and feeling like a total badass.

Here are some examples:
Lanesplitting in heavy traffic. Traffic is creeping along at 10mph, you're doing 25-30. Suddenly someone decides to switch lanes just 12 feet in front of you. There is a truck to your left and right, nowhere to go, but to slam on the brakes. But it's foggy, slightly damp, and you're right on the white paint of a lane divider. You grab a handful of brakes and hope for the best.

Riding in the hills. You come around a corner and in the shadows is a patch of gravel kicked out onto the road from a pot hole. You're leaned over doing 45, rolling on the gas for corner exit. Without traction control, the tire hits the gravel, spins up, and you highside. This depends on how quick revving the bike is - most modern free revving twins and i4's will go from 4 to 14k in an instant. With TC, it will notice that slip and keep the back end from sliding out.

I know this because I've had both of those happen. It really put me in my place and let me appreciate the technology. With enough miles, it's inevitable to encounter this stuff.

 

[ST Guy]

Driving fatalities have plummeted over the last 50 years despite higher speeds and many more miles driven. I really doubt people are any worse (or better) at driving than 50 years ago, people don't really change much, but cars have changed a lot.

But, damn kids these days can't do anything, couldn't even crank start a car if they had to!

'Not sure I could hand crank a car, but I can certainly step on that floorboard button near the clutch.

 

[Holeshot]

ABS: one of the more dangerous items added to motorcycles masked as "safety". Next time, try and lock that rear tire and then wonder "what happens when I WANT to actually stop".

Those from the northeast and snow country will recall why ABS is NOT a good thing on slick surfaces when you really need to slow a vehicle.

On that note, has ABS actually saved anyone on BARF from death or severe injury? I know on track, it'll about put you in a near injury state if you run a fast enough clip...

 

[SFSV650]

ABS: one of the more dangerous items added to motorcycles masked as "safety". Next time, try and lock that rear tire and then wonder "what happens when I WANT to actually stop".

What are you riding? My r1200r will stop like it's hit a cargo net, even with the abs kicking in.

 

[ScottRNelson]

Driving fatalities have plummeted over the last 50 years despite higher speeds and many more miles driven.

Is that because there are fewer wrecks (which I doubt), or because there are fewer injuries now from crashes?

You can walk away from a much higher speed crash in a modern car than you could in a fifty year old car. They didn't even have seat belts in all cars in 1967 yet.


If you're going to toss out statistics, how about a little bit of information to back it up...

 

[Maddevill]

NO rider aid PREVENTS crashes. It's still up to the operator in the end. It's good to have an assist but that doesn't end your responsibility to learn to ride well.

Mad

 

[EastBayDave]

I discovered my wheelie control two rides ago. Lifted the front going over a cattle guard and I noticed a light parade on my dash. Guess I need to notch it down a bit more. Only one click left before it is off. This was the first time I saw it. I guess it has to do with wheel height.

ya know keeping the front tire below your helmet might have something to do with it?

 

[fubar929]

Now that I've owned several bikes with electronic rider aides I've changed my tune, too! I'm beginning to hate them...

Ride-by-wire throttle tied to your riding mode is really annoying. There's usually one mode that works well and in the other modes the throttle is either artificially lethargic or way too abrupt. ABS performance is similar: there's usually one riding mode where it's properly calibrated and several others where it's way too intrusive or unpredictable. Given the unpredictable nature of ABS, I haven't been tempted to trust electronic traction control. I've spent 20 years learning to ride without TC, so I continue to ride my TC-equipped bikes as if it weren't there. Maybe one day it will end up saving my ass, but I'm not counting on it...

 

[ctwo]

Probably fewer fatalities because of all the new tech. My car has 8 airbags, honeycomb windshield pillars, break-away engine mounts and crumple zones, and then there are advances in our medical system.

I have not experienced what Holeshot mentions, but will look into it. I find myself dancing with the ABS when I get aggressive. You might not like it on your race bike, but it seems good for the average street riding where road surface and other factors can be unpredictable.

 

[kuksul08]

ABS: one of the more dangerous items added to motorcycles masked as "safety". Next time, try and lock that rear tire and then wonder "what happens when I WANT to actually stop".

Those from the northeast and snow country will recall why ABS is NOT a good thing on slick surfaces when you really need to slow a vehicle.

On that note, has ABS actually saved anyone on BARF from death or severe injury? I know on track, it'll about put you in a near injury state if you run a fast enough clip...

There's no way of knowing if the outcome would have been death or serious injury, but a fall/collision - yes, absolutely. Sudden stopped traffic around a blind turn, for example.


I wonder if those of you denying the benefits have ever ridden a modern bike with electronics. They in no way make it more dangerous, and are mostly invisible. The older systems - yes. ABS would cause the bike to stand up and extend your braking distance over rough roads. Modern bikes with IMU's and cornering ABS are completely different.

 

[stangmx13]

is there any TC or slide control on a production motorcycle that will allow a rider to be hamfisted at full lean? can a shitty rider go WOT any time and not crash? based on what ive seen, the answer is no. as such, i dont think that throttle rider aids such as TC, wheelie control, or slide control are in any way preventing someone from learning a reasonable amount of throttle control. will they be as good as the pro that can spin the tire at will out of every corner w/ no aids - of course not. but theyll prob still be better than the majority of auto drivers.