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Is college a scam or worthwhile?

I tend towards college loans can be a scam, especially considering university endowments.
I like the idea of public/military service for a couple years because it worked for me and some youths need an idea. I worked part time after high school, got tired of getting stoned and figured the army would pay for my college provide some discipline and maybe I’d get a plan. Living with strangers from very different areas and working together was probably the most valuable experience.
I figure the high school diploma, the honorable discharge and some college proves I’m capable of socialization. The only part of my college plan that worked was that the part time job became full time and life in a college town was good.
So far the veterans administration health care in Reno has been good to me.
 
scam? no clue. i suppose it depends on what you think they’re being dishonest about. they pretty much only commit to telling you a bunch of shit, and that’s pretty much the only thing they do.

worthwhile? i suppose that depends on your expectations. you’ll come away knowing stuff. stuff you can use? probably. knowing how to use it, and how to compete with everyone else who knows the same things? less of a sure thing. big difference between being competent and being competitive.

all of this is sort of retrospective, and based more on professional experience with recent grads and intern candidates. most of what they present as ‘skill’, a person could articulate after a google search. i guess what disappoints me about the higher education system is all of the effort it appears to apply, and how ill it seems to prepare many of those who have gone its process for the real world. those who succeed seem to do that in spite of the system, not due to it. they seem to possess an innate disregard for barriers. not sure if that can be taught. thinking on the mention of military - maybe a combo of ‘come to jesus’ ass kicking (e.g. seal training) and book learning.

it’s rough and tumble out there. dig in. let’s find out how tough you really are.
 
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College was totally worthwhile both times that I went.

Bachelors is a BS in Electrical Engineering and my Masters is an MBA in Finance. Didn't cost a ton since both were done at schools with STATE in the title. :p

Could I have gotten into a big name east coast school? Possibly. But I don't think it would have gotten me any further than where I am right now. People tout the connections at a place like Harvard, but I kind of feel you already need to run in those circles to make it worth while. I'm some bum from a town that is kind of like the Simpsons IRL. Unless you want to clean up nuclear waste or process potatoes, I didn't bring a whole lot of connections to the table back in my college days.

Something like MIT wouldn't have done much for me than WSU did other than put me $100k+ in debt.
 
Also to get an engineering license, like I have, one part of getting the license is proving to the state that you graduated from an accredited engineering program.
 
In our society, higher education has _never_ been more important. Folks take for granted all of the technology that surrounds them, but don't understand it. The iPhone is pretty much magic as far as many folks are concerned, but I can take you down to the radio frequency emissions it makes, talk about signal constellations and protocols, talk about the electrons moving in the traces of the PCBs, etc. This is _thanks to university level education_ and is why I can contribute to building the technologies of tomorrow.


I also don't have a degree, as I dropped out to pursue my career.

Critical reasoning is no longer taught in primary schools. It requires challenging too many deeply held beliefs.

So essentially then (thanks to critical reasoning skills), You didn't get a degree, but learned material that helps you in your career. I'm concluding you weren't hired based on the learned material you talk about above given the lack of a degree (that affirms you've passed the "test and trials" of learning).

I'm not someone who looks down at people who don't have degrees. In fact, for many that have flourished, I admire the shit out of them...and I have lots of friends in that boat. What's become obvious is that an early start into the workforce is critical for building success.

High schools used to have a "practical math" course back when I was in school that I'm sure is gone now. It taught things like balance a checkbook and understanding basic business math. I never learned anything in college that was as relevant as what I learned in that math class I took back in the 90s. It was mandatory for graduation too.

The last 2 years of high school are a waste for those not moving into the university system. Starting in one's junior year, students should be pushed to learn a defined skillset and practice this in a real world environment during the school hours. When one graduates from HS, they should be able to enter the workforce with experience in-field of their choice. Those last two years of HS should be redesigned to promote a HS graduate directly into the workforce if they want to do so.

You don’t think learning rate of change for surface area of an ice cube as it melts would have practical use in everyday life?

Personally, I use the penny melted in coke teachings weekly.

Well, I would say it is a scam if you use it for some hopes and dreams bullshit.

College should be reviewed as your Jobs Training program.

It's a "scam" based on all the unneeded extras loaded into the grad req's. Shit people will never use except at wine parties and bullshitting with other people doing the same back to them. $100K down the drain for these "extras". The internet has made learning these extras a free affair. Yet universities still require another 24 months of enslaving debt to meet the graduation req's.

But there's no established formula for creating some sort of threshold where you have to make $x relative to spending $y and above that identifies legitimate schools and below that identifies a scam uni, so that line of reasoning is actually about value and is simply left to the individual to decide whether or not they found their returns worthwhile, and that's not part of defining a scam. But, I can tell you that *I* would happily give you $100k right now to get back $100k on year five, or even ten, because everything before that and everything after that is gravy.

The scam is in the total usefulness of all learned. less than 50% is ever needed past graduation day, much less retained. Think I've ever used quantitative analysis without having to relearn it 20 years later? Nope...

scam? no clue. i suppose it depends on what you think they’re being dishonest about. they pretty much only commit to telling you a bunch of shit, and that’s pretty much the only thing they do.

it’s rough and tumble out there. dig in. let’s find out how tough you really are.

Solid post is solid and reality filled.
 
The last 2 years of high school are a waste for those not moving into the university system. Starting in one's junior year, students should be pushed to learn a defined skillset and practice this in a real world environment during the school hours. When one graduates from HS, they should be able to enter the workforce with experience in-field of their choice. Those last two years of HS should be redesigned to promote a HS graduate directly into the workforce if they want to do so.

yes. Fuck social development. Become a good little worker bee!

:facepalm
 
The last 2 years of high school are a waste for those not moving into the university system. Starting in one's junior year, students should be pushed to learn a defined skillset and practice this in a real world environment during the school hours. When one graduates from HS, they should be able to enter the workforce with experience in-field of their choice. Those last two years of HS should be redesigned to promote a HS graduate directly into the workforce if they want to do so.

A couple of things...

Firstly, I don't know where you went to high school, but where I did in Southern California, there absolutely were "two paths" that the district had in place in all of the high schools that were under it. One was known as "College Prep" and the other wasn't. Each year in August, students had a predetermined day that we showed up to the auditorium for a very college-like session where you walked up to tables for the classes you wanted to take and signed up. Of course, if you didn't have the qualifications for taking that course already in your file, you couldn't take the course. Essentially, the "College Prep" program started your Freshman year and continued throughout the entire high school program. If you started with "College Prep" but at some point decided you didn't want to stick with it anymore, you could move into the other program. But once you did that, you couldn't return without taking remedial summer courses to essentially catch up. However, once you were too far removed, there was basically no way to catch up realistically. If you didn't follow the "College Prep" program, you still graduated with the same diploma that everyone else gets and all the credits were exactly the same. These weren't AP courses or anything like that, just courses that were more in-tune with what colleges expected and/or wanted high school graduates to complete before being admitted as a Freshman at a university. It's worth noting that if you were planning on attending a junior college, completing the "College Prep" courses weren't necessarily something you needed to do since you would've been able to get into the JC regardless and would just do the courses there anyway.

Secondly, I'm not necessarily an advocate of 14-18 year old kids being expected to know exactly what they want to do with their lives and thus moving into a curriculum pattern that defines their life's career at such a young age. Indeed, if you join the Army in a certain MOS, it's EXTREMELY common for Soldiers to reclass into another MOS after their first contract is complete. Why? You never know what you may actually like more once you get exposed to it. I think it should be that way with kids in high school too. Exposure is great, but give them the options and don't force anything.
 
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So essentially then (thanks to critical reasoning skills), You didn't get a degree, but learned material that helps you in your career. I'm concluding you weren't hired based on the learned material you talk about above given the lack of a degree (that affirms you've passed the "test and trials" of learning).

I'm not someone who looks down at people who don't have degrees. In fact, for many that have flourished, I admire the shit out of them...and I have lots of friends in that boat. What's become obvious is that an early start into the workforce is critical for building success.

The material I learned at university has broadly supported my career and given me a much deeper understanding of the things I work on. It's definitely part of why I've been hired, even if I have to get the interview first, which is more challenging because I don't have the degree to list on my CV. What I'll say is that a lack of degree has limited my career arc- unless I found my own company, I'll never be a C-suite exec without the degree, and I've been told by past leadership that going back to school and getting both a B.S. in my field _and_ a MBA would benefit my career directly.

A degree isn't necessary for success in life; it's helpful, however, to attain higher levels of affluence. One can succeed working on a road repair crew one's entire life (cheers to my stepfather) and make an income on which one won't starve. If you want a more comfortable life, a degree can definitely help you attain that.

I don't look down on people without degrees; I believe that a more well educated populace is more well off than a less educated populace. I believe that the smarter America is at large, the more successful we will be as a nation. I believe that any individual who chooses to educate themselves- via formal instruction, self learning, or any other avenue- will be better off than an individual who does not.
 
There are parts of both sides who contributed to the perception of college looking like a scam.

On one side was the money making scams run as shit schools that didn't teach much but were good at extracting money out of 'students'. On the other side were idiot kids who went to college but didn't really have a realistic plan, they did what sounded good, partied hard and came out of school without much of a future ahead of them. They had a paper but no real skills to make sufficient salary to cover the bills they had accumulated.

College isn't necesary for success, but if you want to work in the science, medical, law or business fields then you need college. If you're going to end up working for Starbucks, it's not worth the huge student loans. The trades offer a very viable future, especially for those who can build their own company and have others work for them in the trades. Then there are the niche areas like pool cleaning, down here there are some people making $$$$$ keeping pools clear, charging $125/wk for a 15-30 minute effort each week.
 
The scam is in the total usefulness of all learned. less than 50% is ever needed past graduation day, much less retained. Think I've ever used quantitative analysis without having to relearn it 20 years later? Nope...

I think you're being very generous at 50%, but learning everything you can about a subject within a set period of time is not equal to whatever x person needs for whatever job they get x years later, nor is it equal to the definition of a scam. May as well call it rape and murder. The fact that society generally thinks people should get a degree in order to be successful in life is no different in its degree of falsehood from thinking that college is a scam. However, there is a big difference if the latter replaces the former as the general perception of society.
 
I finally finished by bachelor's degree last February at the age of 44. The previous 18-months was hell because I was doing two classes every eight weeks at Colorado State Global for my Business Management Degree with a minor in Marketing.

It took my 4.5 years to finish my AS in Business Admin at SRJC.

I have over 20 years of sales experience with a vast majority of that selling into laboratories in Pharma/Biotech/Academic customers. Every single one of my jobs all required a degree, but my experience (network helps) and skill set trumped that need. Only a few companies I was interested in working for required a degree which did set my career back a bit.

I guess it depends on where you end up doing. I degree in my early 20's may have helped my career earlier. But I'll never know. I know it will help me moving forward.

The scam is the cost of books (fuck you Pearson) and the ease of getting a student loan (which cannot be discharged during bankruptcy).
 
Hell, book companies have been ripping off students from at least 1979! :mad

The book companies are very predatory and very protective of their profits. I built a site for a client to find alternatives, the book companies came after us hard to prevent us from allowing students to put in their classes and us telling them what books they'd need. We were forced to remove that information and require the ISBN.
 
Hell, book companies have been ripping off students from at least 1979! :mad

1974 in my case.

They were close to $100 when I was there; I can only imagine prices today.

They were talking about banning used book sales which was the only way to go at my University when I graduated.
 
Universities usually have book stores where you can buy used books, then resell your books. Our daughter spends about $500-$600 per semester on books at a junior college, and about the same again for tuition.
 
I strongly recommend parents start 529 accounts for the kids or grandkids.

They have all the advantages of a Roth IRA in that investment growth and withdrawals are tax free with the added benefit that penalties on withdrawing unused money are minimal.

Just invest in an stock index fund and you are good to go as the S&P, for example, historically grows at about 10 percent per year.
 
Universities usually have book stores where you can buy used books, then resell your books. Our daughter spends about $500-$600 per semester on books at a junior college, and about the same again for tuition.
Even back in the early 80's, the book stores paid 20% to students for used books and charged 80-90% of new price for the same books.
 
They key to doing college right is (1) apply yourself (2) network like crazy with professors, alumni, prospective employers that come on campus, and other students (3) apply for scholarships and grants to defray the cost. Also really important to seek and land your internships relative to your field.

All of the above is easier if you can manage to not work during the semester, only working during summer and winter breaks.

General rule: if you want to be upper class or part of the 1%, def need to go to a good college and “do it right.”
 
I had an interesting path through college. Started as a mechanical engineer. Had an internship. Decided I don't want to do this for the next 40-50 years. But didn't know what else I wanted to do. Failed all my classes my sophomore year because I felt like I had no direction. Left college because I didn't think it was fair to keep spending my parents' money over nothing and also didn't really have any friends. Went back to the same company I had my first internship at. They liked me enough they welcomed me back. Switched to a different side of the business that clicked with me much more. Went to a local community college to rebuild my shattered GPA so I even have a chance of applying to anywhere. Failed all my classes that first semester too because I still didn't have any feeling of direction. Did a couple more years taking classes that I knew were transferable and some classes out of general interest like History of Jazz music and Psychology of Women. Then finally went back to the same college I started instead of some other schools that accepted my application. Felt I had unfinished business.

University of the Pacific in the great city of motherfuckin Stockton, California. :teeth

It was kinda funny. Some of the classes I took, I sat down with the professors before the first day to explain my situation and why I'm here. A couple of them asked me to not raise my hand to answer questions because they knew I know most of this material because I've already racked up about 5 years of legitimate work experience and just answering shit I already know is kind of a dick move. So the other students that are new can work their way through things. So, part of my 2nd stint at UOP was going through the motions because I needed my degree to keep moving forward with my career. One professor actually called me and told me I have to come back to class. I only showed up on test days and I aced all the tests but he told me you still need to be here sometimes. :laughing

Being a college dropout was one of the best things that ever happened to me. It was the first time in my life I had a real problem on my hands that wasn't going away and I realized things aren't going to just happily work out somehow like they usually have before. I was 18 at the time and a bit naive. If I don't do something and change things up, nothing is going to get better.
 
Other than that... I would say the majority of my friends I have are people I met in college. At least with my other friends, it seems there's always a typical story of people they met and became friends with in college and then when it's over and everyone goes there separate ways, they just kinda stop being friend.

Not for me. My fun group of college friends are committed, no matter where we are. Weddings, birthdays, holiday trips, random hang outs. Hell, my roommate and my best friend I met in college. Going to another wedding next month. :teeth

I'm so glad my student loans are paid off though... For 4-5 years, I was taking shotgun shells of payments every month to rid myself of my loans. I could have been driving a new fancy car or bought the coolest bike or whatever but I didn't.
 
The material I learned at university...

Are you British or Canadian? :laughing

Universities usually have book stores where you can buy used books, then resell your books. Our daughter spends about $500-$600 per semester on books at a junior college, and about the same again for tuition.

I rented all my books digitally through Amazon. You can markup whatever you want and have the glorious use of Control-F when you're looking for something specific. $30 for a semester's use of the book and then it's gone. Worked fine for me.
 
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