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Is Independence Arbitrary?
- Thread starter Var
- Start date
Nahullo
Cynical New Age Guy
Related to the Queen's visit..?
The question is related to celebrating Independence Day recently. Just got me thinking. Isn't independence in and of itself a completely arbitrary notion? I mean..Iraq is an independent country, and it's the shits. The USA is independent, and isn't even remotely close as a country. Also, I think independence is even more arbitrary in the USA, because we have no ethnicity as a whole.
I think the discussion could get complicated because of patriotism. So let's bring it down to a lower level where emotions don't get in the way. Let's talk about states within the union. Let's say that California wanted to take over government control of Michigan. Let's say we were going to bring the people of Michigan some of our tech industry, and we were gonna clean up Detroit and put them back on the map economically. But in exchange we get to collect taxes from their citizens and so forth. Michigan is now not independent, but might well be better off than before. It's a loose example with lots of holes, but the gist of it is the same on higher levels.
At the end of the day, isn't the best place to be where you have the most personal liberties and freedoms? Because independence is basically freedom of your government, not freedom of the people under it. If you don't think your government has your best interests in mind, then what's the benefit?
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afm199
Well-known member
Independence Day in the US is strictly a political celebration, based on the acceptance of declaring the 13 colonies separate from the British government and no longer a part of. That's why it is called Independence Day, the old rulers were vanquished and new ones appointed.
As far as most personal liberties and freedoms, if you're rich you've got that, if you're poor, good luck.
As far as most personal liberties and freedoms, if you're rich you've got that, if you're poor, good luck.
Why does everyone(not just americans) get patriotic for independence day when it's just your government celebrating their freedom to impose their will on you?
GAJ
Well-known member
As the US is the #1 country in the world when it comes to immigrant population, by a long shot, I'm guessing their "votes" would say what we have isn't so bad.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/i...ration-immigrant-population-number-immigrants
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/i...ration-immigrant-population-number-immigrants
Mob mentality? Peer pressure? We like to blow stuff up?
Most of these issues are bigger than we like to think about, and honestly most of us can't really comprehend them in any real depth anyway. It's easy to go along with status quo and celebrate what everyone else celebrates rather than individually sit down and see if we agree with what's being celebrated.
BlacKat
rides slow
Imagine a government that wasn't all about imposing it's will on the populous. That's what this country started as and it was something to celebrate. Now...it's getting harder for me to feel that way about the date.
*VillageIdiot*
"and a step to the right"
It was recently argued to me that true "Freedom" is only gained through "Anarchy". I'm still mulling that thought over.
However I concur that Freedom and Independence aren't the same things.
But hey what do I know I'm just a kid with a GED.
However I concur that Freedom and Independence aren't the same things.
But hey what do I know I'm just a kid with a GED.
Yeah for most people I think that's what it is. . Except I have a hard time not thinking about things
The government imposing "its'" will on me?
We the people in order to form a more perfect union..........
As a part of we the people my individual desires are outweighed by the needs of the nation. Please don't think of me as a sheep. I am independent and go against the grain in many aspects of my life but I prefer to be a part of this great nation. My preference dictates that I act as a member of a larger community be it I pay additional taxes or get felt up at the airport.
I can live with that.
We the people in order to form a more perfect union..........
As a part of we the people my individual desires are outweighed by the needs of the nation. Please don't think of me as a sheep. I am independent and go against the grain in many aspects of my life but I prefer to be a part of this great nation. My preference dictates that I act as a member of a larger community be it I pay additional taxes or get felt up at the airport.
I can live with that.
*VillageIdiot*
"and a step to the right"
God I missed BARF 
So you're happy with our government and political system then? If that's the case, then you are absolutely in the right to celebrate independence.
tzrider
Write Only User
Along that line, the thing that typically restrains our sense of freedom is fear. When we say that our government imposes restrictions on our freedom, we really are making a choice to avoid the consequences of violating a law by not doing the thing that violates it - speeding would be an example many of us can relate to.
In total anarchy, we would trade one set of fears for another. We may not have a government and laws to place restrictions on us, but you can bet we would be careful about where we went and when we went there. I suspect that most of us would come to find we were less free under anarchy than we are under our present day government.