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It's a CRASH, not an Accident!

The word "accident" was banished from aviation decades ago, but so was "crash." Anything unintended is now a "mishap." If you're telling your buddies about it at a bar, it's an "unscheduled" or "hard" landing.
 
ThinkFast said:
Actually, there is a huge difference that is semantic (not pedantic, imho).

Try replacing the word 'crash' with 'accident' in this sentence:

Yesterday I crashed into a motorcycle making a left turn at an intersection.

You can't do it without completely altering the meaning, unless you add something about who caused it (which in this example is you).

And that's an important difference - it affects the way people think about what they're doing and how their actions affect others. Using the word 'crash' requires attribution of agency to the person who causes it.

Whether you crash on your own because you hit oil, leaves, a step ladder, or gravel on the road; or you're turning left and get crashed into, you're the one on the ground. And you're the one that (probably - not always, but usually) missed important clues in your immediate environment that would have tipped you off to impending doom. Own it - and avoid it. Accidents happen to you; but you cause crashes. Huge difference. :afm199
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I don't agree with you. Try this one from the perspective of a cager:

Yesterday, a motorcycle crashed into me.

A statement like this can sound like it absolves the cager of responsibility. Is that what you want?
 
I wonder how the insurance companies would deal with the issue if the wording between "accident" & "crash" becomes a solid category?
 
I think most police reports are titled "collision" not an accident, not a crash - a collision (assuming in this case a crash of some variety is involved). SOMEONE is at fault in a collision - an accident implies it couldn't be avoided, and no one could have done anything to prevent it. Which is almost never the case - there are rare exceptions (I think of the tree in Orinda that landed on a car that was driving past when it randomly broke), but MOST things can or could be avoided by one party or the other and often times by both. I'm all for removing "accident" from the vast, VAST majority of crashes/collisions/etc...
 
Two things...

I despise when the media relates "the motorcyclist struck the (blank)," when it was the (blank) in the motorcyclist's lane. A rider with whom I was acquainted was killed by a driver who was passing in fog over the DY, and The Californian carried it as such.

In the world of firearms there are no accidental shootings, only negligent discharges...
 
I stopped reading the article after this quote:

“When you use the word ‘accident,’ it’s like, ‘God made it happen,’ ” Mark Rosekind, the head of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, said at a driver safety conference this month at the Harvard School of Public Health.
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:|

I just completed a Basic Collision Investigation course and they talked about this same thing. There is a push to move away from "collision" and "accident" and start calling them "crashes". To me it sounds like more Dumbing Down of America shit. Just because common vernacular calls it a crash doesn't mean that the formal name for the event should change. :afm199

They also said that collisions are at an all time high because of advancements in social media/technology combined with an improved economy with more people driving to and from work.
 
domingo3 said:
I don't agree with you. Try this one from the perspective of a cager:

Yesterday, a motorcycle crashed into me.

A statement like this can sound like it absolves the cager of responsibility. Is that what you want?
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Sure. That's fine. The courts and police can figure out who actually crashed into whom. Whether it was the rider's fault or the cager's fault is totally irrelevant because regardless of who was technically, actually at fault the fact is that the rider is the one who is more vulnerable to injury, and in your example is the one who is on the ground.

The reason for supporting use of the word "crash" is because when I ride I accept complete responsibility for my safety, which includes doing everything I can to make sure cagers, riders, pedestrians, animals and the universe cannot get me, despite their best efforts - boneheaded moves and all. Intent or no intent; fault or no fault - none of that matters the moment you hit the ground.

Riding with the above in mind and calling it a crash helps remind me that it's the crashing part that sucks; and once it happens, it really truly doesn't matter whose fault it was. Crashed is crashed - you can die from it. Don't do it. Don't let it happen to you. Don't let others do it to you. No accidents, only choices.
 
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Nick said:
I stopped reading the article after this quote:



:|

I just completed a Basic Collision Investigation course and they talked about this same thing. There is a push to move away from "collision" and "accident" and start calling them "crashes". To me it sounds like more Dumbing Down of America shit. Just because common vernacular calls it a crash doesn't mean that the formal name for the event should change. :afm199

They also said that collisions are at an all time high because of advancements in social media/technology combined with an improved economy with more people driving to and from work.
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No, I think the "Dumbing Down of America shit" (as you call it) is actually when it's called "accident" instead of a crash or a collision.

"Oh man, I was looking at my cellphone and created an accident which knocked off a power pole " :rolleyes

I just realized that you or others insist that the word "accident" is entirely different from "[created] by accident". That is pretty befuddling and the idioms are too close to not be confused
 
AbsolutEnduser said:
No, I think the "Dumbing Down of America shit" (as you call it) is actually when it's called "accident" instead of a crash or a collision.

"Oh man, I was looking at my cellphone and created an accident which knocked off a power pole " :rolleyes

I just realized that you or others insist that the word "accident" is entirely different from "[created] by accident". That is pretty befuddling and the idioms are too close to not be confused
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Actually, I prefer the term collision, which would be the formal name as indicated in my post.
 
Nick said:
Actually, I prefer the term collision, which would be the formal name as indicated in my post.
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I think LEOs use the abbreviation "TC" for Traffic Collision. There is no assignment of fault, but there is also no absolution either.

Changing people's behavior can bring huge benefits. Changing the language people use can change their behavior, because it helps them to recognize their responsibility and contribution to any TC.

It's rarely, if ever, just an act of God, especially if you were exercising bad judgement...drinking beers before riding/driving, glancing at your cell phone, riding at speed with a left turner in front of you, not enhancing your conspicuity, driving over the DY, driving a panel truck on an impassable twisty road, driving/riding too fast for conditions, etc..
 
Hey Moderators - does this belong over in 1Rider?

It’s springtime, the seemingly endless rain has finally moved out, and the twisty ribbons of numbered tarmac beckon.

Time to get your head back in the game and get out there and :ride:ride:ride
 
Is this along the lines of somebody who shoots somebody in front of a hundred people 'allegedly' shot the person?

I've always been of the belief that there are very few actual 'accidents', most are the result of carelessness on the part of one or more of the parties involved.
 
Climber said:
I've always been of the belief that there are very few actual 'accidents', most are the result of carelessness on the part of one or more of the parties involved.
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merriam-webster said:
Definition of accident

1a : an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance

Their meeting was an accident.

b : lack of intention or necessity : CHANCE

They met by accident rather than by design.

2a : an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance

was involved in a traffic accident
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In other words, accidents.
 
tzrider said:
In other words, accidents.
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At the beginning of this thread I think I addressed the difference, in my view, between an accident and a crash, and why I find it helpful to think in terms of “crashing”, rather than “being in an accident.” Accidents are what happens to you, leaving open the question of agency and who did what to whom. “It was an accident - they guy changed into the center lane at the same time I was moving into it and we didn’t see each other. Oops.”

As a rider I can’t afford that luxury. It really doesn’t matter whose fault it was - if I crash, I’m the one who loses. I have plenty of rider friends who talk about their “accident,” and sometimes even try to ascribe blame to someone or something beyond themselves.

I don’t buy it. It was a crash. You are the one who was riding; and you crashed. You were the primary actor in your incident.

Not trying to ram anything down anyone’s throat. You’re free to call it whatever you want. Someone else posted up something about thought police. I’m sharing my perspective on a mental device I have found useful in shaping my attitude for the better when I ride. If you it doesn’t work for you, that’s cool.
 
Having the Right of Way doesn't make you any less dead or injured.

As riders, we have to account and be prepared for mistakes by others if we are to have a long riding career.
 
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