KTM Duke 200 Review

[JO EBRMC]

Yeah, if we could all get new 2-strokes this would be a totally different discussion.

 

[sliverstorm]

It is unfortunate that you've never seen these bikes--you can attribute that to the sales and marketing departments selling you on the idea that a 500cc machine is a small bike.

You keep repeating that bit about how I think 500cc is small. I don't think you've read my posts. I have owned 1x 250, 2x 500, 1x 625, 1x 650, and 1x 1000. The 1000 was excessive. The 600 I4's I rode were also a little excessive. The 500's were nice. My personal favorite engine configuration for street riding is a ~600cc single (you need a little extra displacement with singles).

Listen--I can see how this may seem like a personal attack because what I am saying flies in the face of accepted wisdom here on teh Barf. That's always the way with "new" ideas (although this isn't a new idea--it is accepted in other countries).

Get off your high horse. None of this is personal, and I do not take it thus. The idea that smaller displacement bikes are better for newbs is accepted wisdom here on teh Barf. The Ninja 250 is highly recommended in practically every "New Rider Bike?" thread by half of Barf, myself included. But we still have some flexibility in our minds to accept different options! Few Barf'ers are "EX250 or DIE!". Plus, I think a number of us have the experience to understand that a single does not make power like a twin. Singles need a bump in displacement to keep up. My KLR650- Oh god! 650cc's!- made all of 33HP, a massive ~5HP more than the EX250. As an extra plus, singles have very friendly characteristics. Nice torque, simple engines, etc.

It's ironic that you talk about learning curves and beginner-friendly bikes, and then you post up a 2T motoGP lookalike. Sure, at 10hp you're not likely to wrap yourself around a telephone pole, but a racy two-stroke is the antithesis of beginner-friendly.

My ultimate point: It becomes clear to me that you are thinking about displacement in absolutes. 100cc is more dangerous than 50cc, because THERE ARE MORE CC's! What I am asking of you is to think about more than the displacement. Consider engine configuration. Consider tuning. Consider 4T vs 2T. Not all engines are equal (nor are bike frames for that matter)

 

[cdlabate]

That Duke 200 is kinda like my plated WR200, only 100 lbs heavier.

Much sexier though.

 

[DocWong]

I still want one.

After riding your 250, I was so impressed at it's handling that I got my wife one for her first bike and she's been having a blast on hers. Of course I somehow ended up riding it last docwong clinic. Hmm....what bike will I ride tomorrow?

Now the KTM, I just may like that better than the Ninjette.

^ Agree 100%

In the range of "smaller displacement" (400cc's or less) motorcycles, historically there have been MANY different brands and models that have come to exist. Few have been successful in USA markets.

In most cases the motivation driving their existence was not the Manufacture saying - "hey it'd be cool to offer a smaller sized model of this same bike" - but instead driven by the need for providing a bike that is purchasable by riders within the tiered licensing restrictions of various countries around the world.

If all tiered licensing systems around the world were to completely disappear, I suspect a large percentage of the "smaller displacement" bikes that exist today would also disappear; with only their larger-engined counterparts being offered.

Line a Duke 200 (priced at $6,000?) up alongside a Duke 690 (priced at $8,000?) on a showroom floor here in the USA (where no tiered licensing exists), and the dust will quickly get very thick on the unsold 200's (unfortunately, based on history).

 

[ToraTora]

In Historic Times

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[ToraTora]

Cognitive Dissonance

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[ToraTora]

Comprehension

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[lgyee4]

Much sexier though.

NOT.
I guess styling is in the eye of the beholder.
I'm not into BBW either.

and for a 200cc bike, having an extra 100 pounds between your legs is lame;
especially for MX and single track.

 

[luckett]

Cool bike. That 350 would be a perfect beginners bike if it had a bit more hp for the freeways.

 

[cdlabate]

NOT.
I guess styling is in the eye of the beholder.
I'm not into BBW either.

and for a 200cc bike, having an extra 100 pounds between your legs is lame;
especially for MX and single track.

Clearly not the 200SD intended use.

 

[JO EBRMC]

Cool bike. That 350 would be a perfect beginners bike if it had a bit more hp for the freeways.

The 200 will do 85mph. I'd expect the 350 would be more capable. What more would you ask for?

Tora Tora, I could respond to all of that but it would be pointless. Basically, you have absolutely zero evidence to support your view and you seem to believe that flowery language will disguise the fact that you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

In this topic, we have tweedle-dee arguing that a 350 is too small and tweedle-dum arguing that it is too big.

 

[ToraTora]

Jerry Troll

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[JO EBRMC]

You are so right Jerry--I totally need to revise my hypothesis.

Looks like a troll. Acts like a troll. Swears like a troll. --> It's a Jerry Troll.

So, instead of actually articulating a valid argument, you pull out the troll card when someone disagrees.

 

[JO EBRMC]

and for a 200cc bike, having an extra 100 pounds between your legs is lame;
especially for MX and single track.

Where did you come up with100lbs? The bike weighs 275 which is only slightly more than an air-cooled 200-250cc dirtbike.

 

[ToraTora]

Don't feed the trolls

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[sliverstorm]

ToraTora, making a sound argument involves discussing & tying together evidence just as much as it involves having evidence. You may have given us evidence, but you have yet to make a sound argument.

That graph, for example. I know where you're trying to go with it- there is an optimal point of difficulty to promote learning- but nowhere do you actually demonstrate that a certain kind of bike is that optimal point. So thus far, you have "proved" to us with your graph that there is an optimal point of difficult for promoting learning. Ok, that was pretty obvious already, but now what? That very graph also shows that making things too easy is also bad for learning, so you can't just say "Smaller/easier = better!!!". Your point is incomplete. Why is a RS50 (in your mind) optimally positioned on that chart? How do we know? Why is a KTM 350 so definitively not?

 

[JO EBRMC]

I really should stop feeding you. I listed a number of valid reasons, ideas, a scientific paper, a digestible version of that paper, a graph, etc. You repeatedly claimed I didn't provide any information when that was your behavior. Then you switched to ad hominem attacks, name calling, and swearing. Not once did you present information for why the 350 is a great first bike. Jerry for this thread you have been Trolling. arty

As silverstorm pointed out, all of the information you have provided as 'evidence' is without any relationship to the claims you are making.

Looking at the chart you provided, I could easily and reasonably place nearly any bike within the 'optimal' zone. In fact, without any bias, I'd expect most people would look at that chart and place a 40hp 350cc single right in the middle or at the lowside of optimal. A 50cc race bike is nowhere near that zone as it is clearly on the extremes of performance.

As to the charge of trolling, I'll continue to use the same language I use in all discussions and tell you to stuff it. You are the one who came into the topic and made a controversial claim that conflicts with the opinion expressed by the majority of participants and then refused to acknowledge that your opinion is exactly that and the "evidence" you've provided doesn't support it.

 

[Blankpage]

This might be more like what Americans are looking for. 2012 690Duke.

 

[Turbongr]

I really should stop feeding you. I listed a number of valid reasons, ideas, a scientific paper, a digestible version of that paper, a graph, etc. You repeatedly claimed I didn't provide any information when that was your behavior. Then you switched to ad hominem attacks, name calling, and swearing. Not once did you present information for why the 350 is a great first bike. Jerry for this thread you have been Trolling. arty

Are you trying to come across like a self-important shit disturber on purpose? If so, yr doing a hell of a job Brownie. If not, you must be incredibly annoying in person.

 

[OldFatGuy]

This might be more like what Americans are looking for. 2012 690Duke.