Leaked Apache Video

[Aluisious]

Again, hindsight is 20/20 and you're reinforcing the statement.

You are so deep in denial it frightens me. You keep acting like no one knew. Millions of people knew, and anyone else was wrong. It isn't "hindsight."

Would you tell a driver who got drunk and ran over a motorcyclist at an intersection "hindsight is 20/20?"

The main belief that was spoon fed to the populous was the threat of WMDs and people ate it up; me included.

Whose fault is that? Do you think no one will ever lie to you in the future?



I will not "lecture you after I have served." I have exactly zero interest in placing my life in the hands of politicians I know to be liars and idiots.

 

[Burning1]

Dude... :|

 

[B-Cuz]

You are so deep in denial it frightens me. You keep acting like no one knew. Millions of people knew, and anyone else was wrong. It isn't "hindsight."

Would you tell a driver who got drunk and ran over a motorcyclist at an intersection "hindsight is 20/20?"



Whose fault is that? Do you think no one will ever lie to you in the future?



I will not "lecture you after I have served." I have exactly zero interest in placing my life in the hands of politicians I know to be liars and idiots.

I've stated my position and continuing this argument will prove a massive waste of time and effort. When all is said and done at least I can say, "Aluisious knew all along!"

 

[Burning1]

And I'm saying, that to me, a cautious approach would involve not shooting a 30mm gun into a group of people because they might have attacked American soldiers.

That approach undermines every one of our stated goals in Iraq. It destabilizes the country, pushes it further towards religious extremism, and breeds terrorism.

I'm saying that if we have lost sight of our goals, and no longer care about our stated objectives, we would serve our soldiers far better by pulling them out of Iraq.

 

[Aluisious]

Excuses and empty rhetoric. You will be "mislead" again.

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[richt127]

You are so deep in denial it frightens me. You keep acting like no one knew. Millions of people knew, and anyone else was wrong. It isn't "hindsight."

Your ignorance frightens me. 9/11/2001 happened and everyone was for the war, how it escaladed into today's situation after 9 years is another story.

To think that we can simply just say sorry and "pull out" is a great concept. However, in terms of the politics you speak of; pulling out without really validating the very intentions of why we even went to war in the first place is difficult. How would the politicians jusitify all the lives lost? money and time spent? It's a slap across the face that they aren't willing to take.

I would know that a couple guys with AKMs and RPG-7s do not pose the slightest threat to my helicopter gunship, which I am operating far beyond the range of their weapons and slightly beyond the range of their eyes and ears.

So you're implying that we should just leave those terrorists alone with their AKs/RPGs just because they don't pose a threat to our particular helo at that particular time?

 

[Aluisious]

Your ignorance frightens me. 9/11/2001 happened and everyone was for the war, how it escaladed into today's situation after 9 years is another story.

 

[kevin 714]

Again, hindsight is 20/20 and you're reinforcing the statement. The main belief that was spoon fed to the populous was the threat of WMDs and people ate it up; me included. As time went on and nothing was produced, that was when I realized that it was all bullshit. It was not my call whether to enter or not, I didn't have any say in the matter, I just did what I had to do and I did so with pride. As others have pointed out that being an armchair QB with the amount of information that has come from Iraq is the easiest of tasks and I agree with it. Lecture me after you have served.

the populace id not eat it up, many did. but there was an equal amount who did not. world wide protests on a massive scale, UN weapons inspectors who said there were no WMD's, it goes on and on. MANY people saw this war as bullshit fromn the start.

i respect your ability to man up and say you were wrong...its an admiral trait all to uncommon. but i think that saying people were spoon fed the war and such is incorrect.

and saying you had no say in the matterm especially in your service, is incorrect. you could have chose not to. repercutions yes, but you could have regardless.

 

[gixxerjoeca]

Fixed

 

[SuperMike]

Your ignorance frightens me. 9/11/2001 happened and everyone was for the war...

You love to throw that word, "ignorant" around.

YOU're being the ignorant one. Not everyone was for the war. We were bullied into it by our own government.

 

[Burning1]

i respect your ability to man up and say you were wrong...its an admiral trait all to uncommon. but i think that saying people were spoon fed the war and such is incorrect.

and saying you had no say in the matterm especially in your service, is incorrect. you could have chose not to. repercutions yes, but you could have regardless.

We were spoon-fed the war. Some people bought into it, others did not. I can respect and understand why someone would buy into it. My opinion at the time was... "Let Saddam have his chemical weapons."

I could respect a soldier refusing to go to war he doesn't believe in, but I don't really see a high honor in it. A solider makes a promise to his country, and whether he follows through on that promise, or rescinds it, he faces a tough challenge. This isn't a situation like "My Lai" where soldiers were actively massacring civilians - where standing against your orders and comrades was worthy of honors.

Your ignorance frightens me. 9/11/2001 happened and everyone was for the war, how it escaladed into today's situation after 9 years is another story.

Most everyone I knew was all for the invasion of Afghanastan and the pursuit of Osama Bin Laden. In that day, Bush enjoyed huge support, even from the left. There was not nearly as much support for the invasion of Iraq.

Many people viewed the Iraq war as a distraction from our pursuit of Bin Laden.

So you're implying that we should just leave those terrorists alone with their AKs/RPGs just because they don't pose a threat to our particular helo at that particular time?

I think he's suggesting that it wasn't a life and death situation. That there was more time to assess the threat. That more caution might have identified these men as journalists, rather than terrorists.

 

[2strokeYardSale]

So you're implying that we should just leave those terrorists alone with their AKs/RPGs just because they don't pose a threat to our particular helo at that particular time?

I'm not implying anything, I answered the hypothetical question, which implied it was self-defense. I understand the U.S. military kills Iraqis without needing to justify it as self defense.

What information do you have that indicates they were terrorists? (That is, out to kill Suunis or Shiites shopping in the market or something.) I assume ununiformed men armed with rifles and launchers are insurgents fighting the military forces which have occupied their country for the past seven years.

 

[Burning1]

I'm all for the insurgents picking up AKs and RPGs. It's the snipers standing in crowds of civilians and the guys planting IEDs that piss me off.

 

[crank1000]

Dude, 9/11 happened... so I'm going to invade Canada cuz they gotz the bomb azz maple syrupz yO!

 

[n10sive]

Today's news on this. Of course it is Fox, but the military is suggesting the video at WikiLeaks was edited (by them) to add some bias.

 

[kevin 714]

Today's news on this. Of course it is Fox, but the military is suggesting the video at WikiLeaks was edited (by them) to add some bias.

can trust fox news in anyway any more.

if i see this from a more reliable news outlet(the very few left) then i will adjust my position

I could respect a soldier refusing to go to war he doesn't believe in, but I don't really see a high honor in it. A solider makes a promise to his country, and whether he follows through on that promise, or rescinds it, he faces a tough challenge. This isn't a situation like "My Lai" where soldiers were actively massacring civilians - where standing against your orders and comrades was worthy of honors.

good post. personally i see a higher honor in refusing to kill people for something you dont morally believe in, but i can see your point as well. i DO think after 9/11 a lot of guys signed up to defend us, and ended up somehow in iraq defending usa buisness and economic interests, attempting to increase our hegemony in the middle east, in a war sold thorough lies ad propoganda. and these guys ended up doing nothing like they thought they would

 

[Zero_1RR]

They were umbrella's.

im watching it. 20 AKs? yeah right. why don't you put up some screen captures?

 

[Marlowe]

Wow, every single one of you has missed the point.

Mistaking a camera for an RPG...okay, that happens. Within their ROE, shit happens.

Covering it up after the fact?

That's a problem.

When they blow off FOIA requests for 3 years...it's clearly deliberate...because someone aware of it, had to be the one to leak the video.

 

[kevin 714]

Wow, every single one of you has missed the point.

Mistaking a camera for an RPG...okay, that happens. Within their ROE, shit happens.

Covering it up after the fact?

That's a problem.

When they blow off FOIA requests for 3 years...it's clearly deliberate...because someone aware of it, had to be the one to leak the video.

correct...seems to me that covering it up means there was something fishy. had it been an honest and tradgic mistake, seems the people would have said solemly that they made a mistake, people got killed. you heard them on the video talking about shooting those kids like it was no big deal. I KNOW guys who have kiled innocents by mistake, and it still haunts both of them to this day. shit happens in war, but to cover it up basicaly shows that the guys were out to do wrong

 

[Zero_1RR]

I'm watching it right now. Vid starts with a group of 20 armed with Ak's and Rpg, guy with RPG was about to engage a Heli or a Brad... Heli's get the go to engage...they light them up. They eliminate about 12-15 of the armed Iraqi's. A few minutes later, insurgents van pulls up to pick up a wounded, they light the van up. Later in the vid they discuss a civilian child that had got caught up in the crossfire and needed evac. As the BRAds secure the area they get small arms fire and find 6 insurgents with AK's near their location, they go into an abandoned building and the Heli pilots light it up with 3 Hellfires.

Wikileaks has obtained and decrypted this previously unreleased video footage from a US Apache helicopter in 2007. It shows Reuters journalist Namir Noor-Eldeen, driver Saeed Chmagh, and several others as the Apache shoots and kills them in a public square in Eastern Baghdad. They are apparently assumed to be insurgents. After the initial shooting, an unarmed group of adults and children in a minivan arrives on the scene and attempts to transport the wounded. They are fired upon as well. The official statement on this incident initially listed all adults as insurgents and claimed the US military did not know how the deaths ocurred. Wikileaks released this video with transcripts and a package of supporting documents on April 5th 2010 on http://collateralmurder.com

dude fox called they want to offer you a position...