Left turner get 60 days

[clutchslip]

Pretty surprising responses in the thread considering it is barf with usually a less lenient attitude that I have seen previously. A firefighter who hit a biker, first comes to mind. I would like the opinion of putting DUI drivers in jail from the same people who think killing someone may not deserve jail time, or that 60 days is enough for running over a motorcyclist.

People's lives have been at least as ruined, if not more destroyed than this person, just for being convicted of DUI. They didn't kill anyone. In fact, they didn't even have an accident, but may suffer as much as this person. That does not make sense to me. You are convicting an intoxicated person who MAY do something wrong to someone else, but actually has not hurt anyone or anything. Meanwhile, as long as you can prove you are not drunk, you get a pass because it is just an accident? This is too inconsistent for my logic. Maybe someone can justify this hypocrisy for me.

 

[DataDan]

This is a good result compared to many fatal motorcycle crashes in California and the US. Thank you to the Sonoma County DA for prosecuting the motorcyclist's death as vehicular manslaughter when the evidence supported it.

It is not that way everywhere in the Bay Area. In a 2012 crash in San Francisco, a motorcyclist was killed by a red-light runner, and a cop talking to the press called it "a tragic accident". If the DA had been inclined to prosecute, Officer Loose Lips sank the case right there.

I looked at motorcycle crash data from 2016 and found 14 Bay Area fatalities vs. left-turners and other crossing vehicles. Of those, 7 were the motorcyclist's fault due to unsafe speed, DUI, running a red light, and running from CHP. Of the 7 that were the other driver's fault, this Sonoma County case is the only one for which I found news of prosecution. It's possible that others were or will be prosecuted, but they haven't been reported in the media.

 

[budman]

Thanks Dan... it appears that this is about as good as we can assume we get.

And nice post Dub. Good perspective. Yet... it does still leave me wanting more information to really make a personal determination / opinion that is different than my original.

I still feel that the judgement is lenient, but I certainly see where her life is forever changed.

Certainly a verdict like this could add weight to a civil case.

I do know if I made a mistake a killed a rider I would be super distraught and never really get over it. Humans make mistakes and we are lucky when making one never hurts someone else.

 

[sckego]

7 were the motorcyclist's fault due to unsafe speed, DUI, running a red light, and running from CHP.

I love how because a rider was DUI it becomes her fault that somebody turned in front of her.

 

[dravnx]

I love how because a rider was DUI it becomes her fault that somebody turned in front of her.

Without knowing the details of the accident and the investigation, it would be difficult to make that assumption. I've had plenty of left turners not give me the right of way. I haven't hit one of them yet, knock on wood.

 

[DataDan]

7 were the motorcyclist's fault due to unsafe speed, DUI, running a red light, and running from CHP.

I love how because a rider was DUI it becomes her fault that somebody turned in front of her.

In the one case where DUI was the primary factor, the rider, who tested positive for methamphetamine and weed, was doing 65 in a 40 on his Busa when a car turned left from a residential cross street on his right.

 

[thedub]

Good post but you forgot civil court to ruin her financially.

Oh yeah, good point, I did forget about that.

 

[scootergmc]

I wonder why the charge was misdemeanor homicide and not felony manslaughter.

honestly, locking someone up for years for accidentally killing another person has never sat right with me. if they are remorseful & lose their license, im cool with 60 days.

Bad reporting. The conviction offense was 192(c)(2)PC, Vehicular Manslaughter without gross negligence, not amounting to a Felony.

 

[FXCLM5]

sonoma county local da sucks

10 years ago, some texting college student runs over a toddler and her mom and kills the toddler in the middle of a crosswalk.

The road where the incident happened, contains a park, a elementary school and a large apartment/townhouse complex within 1 block. The foot traffic is insane there!!!! Yet the DA let the college student do community service and go on some college tour of tellling people texting and driving is bad....

I dont even live in that town, been on that road a handful of times and understand its heavily traffic by pedestrians because of the park/apartment and school all on the same block. Obviously the student attending ssu frequents that section of the road, ignores the heavy pedestrian traffic, continues to text and use her phone until she murdered a toddler in the middle of the crosswalk.

 

[DucatiHoney]

It's Philosophy Talk for motorcyclists...

What if Mother Theresa ran over and killed your coke-head, dead-beat, ex-con dad on his motorcycle, but it's because she was too busy praying for a cure for his terminal cancer and momentarily had a lapse in concentration?

What if a little kid meandered into the street playing on your cell phone that you'd left in the restaurant bathroom and you hit her with your motorcycle on your way back to get it because you didn't see her and couldn't stop in time?

arty

 

[295566]

I love how because a rider was DUI it becomes her fault that somebody turned in front of her.

That's how the CVC works, car or motorcycle... DUI is almost always going to be the primary collision factor regardless of which vehicle that DUI driver is in.

 

[pandy]

I understand that everyone has a life and a story. I understand that we all make mistakes, some of them real doozies. But where do we draw that line between true justice for the victim's family and true punishment for the perpetrator of the crime?

I just know that in my mind, when I see the possibility of it being my son or my partner in that coffin, 60 days seems like more of an insult than a punishment. I want that perpetrator to deal with more than a bit of embarrassment and inconvenience for 6 years, because those who are left behind have a life sentence.

I recognize, too, that the perpetrator's family pays a heavy price, and I do have compassion for them... they serve that same 60 days... plus six years of embarrassment/inconvenience, fear for the future, life never being the same, much as the victim's family.

I honestly don't know the "right" answer here, because there really isn't one... But having been in the victim's family's shoes in the past, 60 days sure doesn't feel like the right one...

Love,
pandy

P.S. It doesn't help that if we all had a nickel for every time we've almost been nailed by a left turner, we'd all have new bikes.

 

[budman]

It's Philosophy Talk for motorcyclists...

What if Mother Theresa ran over and killed your coke-head, dead-beat, ex-con dad on his motorcycle, but it's because she was too busy praying for a cure for his terminal cancer and momentarily had a lapse in concentration?

What if a little kid meandered into the street playing on your cell phone that you'd left in the restaurant bathroom and you hit her with your motorcycle on your way back to get it because you didn't see her and couldn't stop in time?

arty

Mother Theresa is going to jail.. too busy? Not an excuse.
I would let her out early on good behavior and a good call on who to hit.. maybe..

The second one is a toughy..well played.
I would expect more than 60 days if I ran over a kid and killed her.


Damn kids looking down at their phones...

 

[Marcoose]

I love how because a rider was DUI it becomes her fault that somebody turned in front of her.

Some lawyer friends now and then toss-up the term 'clean hands doctrine'. If my non-lawyer mediocre noggin interprets this more or less right, it's not the impaired rider's fault that somebody turned in front of her, but she doesn't have much of a leg to stand-on either. She's impaired, her judgement is impaired, her vision is impaired, her reaction time is longer, etc. She should not have been on a motorbike. The same lawyer friends say that kind of situation skews the assignment of responsibility and fault.

 

[stangmx13]

The punishment should be severe enough to send a message to pay attention else your life will be fucked also.

isnt it common knowledge by now that this doesnt work at all....

Bad reporting. The conviction offense was 192(c)(2)PC, Vehicular Manslaughter without gross negligence, not amounting to a Felony.

thnx.

I didnt realize that vehicular manslaughter could even be a misdemeanor. learn something new every day.

 

[Butch]

Nice post, dub.

Yeah. You guys are all pretty insightful.
May we all be careful, and lucky.

Heck, we are here to ponder this. We are already pretty lucky. May that continue.

 

[ScottRNelson]

P.S. It doesn't help that if we all had a nickel for every time we've almost been nailed by a left turner, we'd all have new bikes.

I've NEVER almost been nailed by a left turner. Never even had a close call. I'm pretty good at identifying threats and avoiding them though. If you've almost been nailed a bunch of times, maybe you should work on identifying and avoiding threats in traffic.

I also want to commend thedub on a good post. There is no way all sides can feel that they've been dealt with fairly when something like this happens. Those of you pushing for a harsher sentence should put your efforts into getting authorities to prosecute the others who killed someone by a left turn and didn't go to jail.

 

[pandy]

I've NEVER almost been nailed by a left turner. Never even had a close call. I'm pretty good at identifying threats and avoiding them though. If you've almost been nailed a bunch of times, maybe you should work on identifying and avoiding threats in traffic.

I certainly appreciate your concern over my lack of skills, but I also have never been hit by that errant left-turner. I consider that to be as much luck as it is skill and/or prescience. I've not led quite your charmed life though, because even after over 15 years of intense SF Bay Area riding, they're still out to get me. It must be me.

There are many good posts in this thread, including dub's. Most are thoughtful, insightful, and kind, even where there's pain from the past. And then there are contributions like this to balance it all out.

I've missed teh barfz.

Love,
pandy

 

[ScottRNelson]

I certainly appreciate your concern over my lack of skills, but I also have never been hit by that errant left-turner. I consider that to be as much luck as it is skill and/or prescience. I've not led quite your charmed life though, because even after over 15 years of intense SF Bay Area riding, they're still out to get me. It must be me.

There are many good posts in this thread, including dub's. Most are thoughtful, insightful, and kind, even where there's pain from the past. And then there are contributions like this to balance it all out.

Give me a break!

You made a statement that I can't believe, implying that we're all seen tons of close calls with left turners. So now I'm a bad guy for calling you out on it?

How many close calls with left turners have you had in your 15 years of riding in the Bay Area? Enough to even have a dollar when we give you a nickle for each one? You did say "we'd all have new bikes".

 

[dravnx]

I guess "almost" is pretty subjective. I've had my share of left turners turning in front of me. I've had to stop, let them go on and shake my head. Is that "almost"? I've blown my rather loud horn to get their attention, they stopped and I went on my way. Is that "almost"? I've never had to do a panic stop because of a left turner and I've never been hit.