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Losing traction on bumpy corners

37 39 is too high. Saving money by riding poorly set up suspension is the most foolish thing a rider can do, aside from relying entirely on the rear brake for stopping. A well setup bike is plush and comfortable and you don't lose traction in corners, period, on bumps.
 
afm199 said:
37 39 is too high. Saving money by riding poorly set up suspension is the most foolish thing a rider can do, aside from relying entirely on the rear brake for stopping. A well setup bike is plush and comfortable and you don't lose traction in corners, period, on bumps.
Click to expand...

If that's too high then what's right? Pirelli says front is 32-42 and rear is 36-42 acceptable ranges, so I picked something right in the middle.

And who's "saving money"? I'd posted on here within an hour of riding asking about suspension set up. I've owned the bike for 48 hrs.
 
Dude, congrats on the new ride. Thinking of trading my FJR for a MultiS. Something sounds strange here, the multis I have ridden were all planted in the corners without any setup for my weight. Try the lowest tire pressure recommended by the factory first. That should be fine for rider only with no other load. Then have Aces make sure the suspension settings are set to factory recommendation also. This would be a place to start. Then see either Dave Moss or Scott at Desmoto as suggested by others. I am tempted to try to diagnose your problem but that might start 5 pages of senseless banter.:teeth
 
calmike79 said:
put it up to 37/39 and it's feelin' much better. i can actually feel the suspension.

it was strange before, like the steering was torquing away from me. much improved; although there still were some jitters on certain bumps in turns but i'd assume that's mostly normal.

i've heard you should get a few weeks on a new bike before getting the suspension set up. thoughts?
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Do the basic suspension set up (sag or pre-load is the starting point) ASAP it could be done at the dealership before leaving with the bike or the minute you get home.

That and tire pressure has to be close, or you have no excuse for any "not so good" bike behavour.

Also a Scotts damper would be on any bike of mine.

After that, "losing traction" is no big deal, it is going on all the time :thumbup, when you get aggressive in knarly riding :cool
 
rydmohr said:
Something sounds strange here, the multis I have ridden were all planted in the corners without any setup for my weight.
Click to expand...

Maybe because you were riding one whose owner is the same build/weight as you? ;)

My friend's multi handles like its on rails, but again we're pretty much the exact same build, and he has the S model. My duc, on the other hand, I bought with the suspension set up for a 200 lb rider, and had big problems with choppy suspension in the week I rode it before getting it set up.
 
I'd called in Scuderia because they stock KTM enduro handguards that fit the Multi, and interestingly the guy I chatted with suggested losing traction in the front end is likely more symptomatic of improper technique on a "dirt-bike style" ride like the Multi; and that by getting close to the tank, making sure knees are grabbing, not leaning too much, etc, would do the trick, and cautioned against tweaking the suspension from stock too much before learning proper techniques.

I know the dominant opinion on here is to get the suspension set-up for you right away by someone knowledgable, but does the argument I just heard change that dynamic at all?
 
No... the arguement you just heard, is mis-guided. Basic set up, is vital. Sag / Preload, puts the suspension in the right position to do it's job (with the weight of you and your gear). The basic settings of compression / rebound are for controling the travel of the suspension, in normal / usual use.

As you get "introduced" to your bike, and your style and use are more defined, then changes from what was set, (and a supension guru, most likely will be involved here) can be made.

But... it remains, set (or get set, but you should get informed and do these things yourself) the suspension in the basic correctness for you, first. Then if re-fining is desired later, that can be done.

If you feel less than happy with what is done in your local area, I'd hot foot it over to Modesto Ducati. I know the manager and staff there know what they are doing.
 
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Ok, I've read the entire thread for a change before replying.

I was actually a bit reluctant to say anything because I might be stepping on a lot of toes but...

Is "suspension setup" really all that important? When I bought my Aprilia Caponord, it handled so much better than anything I'd ever owned before (mostly old BMW's, a few Brits, a couple of hinged-in the middle older Japanese bikes) that the idea of "setting up" my suspension was the absolute last thing on my mind.
I was just having too much fun riding the Capo, including one track day, where I didn't for one instant feel that there was anything wrong with the handling, except for somewhat limited ground clearance.
To this day (5 years and 40,000 miles), I still haven't "set up" my suspension, although I did finally buy a set of Hyperpro springs last spring front and rear to replace the worn out stock springs.
I still don't feel that I need to do anything to my suspension for the kind of riding I do (I don't play ricky-racer, hanging off and dragging knee, but I can move along at a respectable pace when I feel like it).
It just seems to me that esoterica like suspension tuning (and worrying obsessively over tire choices, etc...) are for people who are trying to extract the last little smidgen of performance on the track.

So, feel free to offer me some reasonable, researched explanations about the value of suspension tuning.
Are you sure it's not just a placebo effect for most of you? You've spent some money, an expert has done some tinkering with your forks and shock, so you're expecting the bike to be transformed. Is it really that noticable anywhere but on a track at full speed?

Is there really that much wrong with just riding your bike as it came from the dealer?

Flame on.

:rant
 
If you like the bike box stock, thats great for you. Just for fun (if the Capo has damping adjustments) write down what they're set at now, then back them all the way out and ride your favorite backroad (windy preferably). Now adjust the clickers all the way in. Then come back and call it esoterica.
 
caponerd said:
Is "suspension setup" really all that important? When I bought my Aprilia Caponord, it handled so much better than anything I'd ever owned before (mostly old BMW's, a few Brits, a couple of hinged-in the middle older Japanese bikes) that the idea of "setting up" my suspension was the absolute last thing on my mind.
I was just having too much fun riding the Capo, including one track day, where I didn't for one instant feel that there was anything wrong with the handling, except for somewhat limited ground clearance.
To this day (5 years and 40,000 miles), I still haven't "set up" my suspension, although I did finally buy a set of Hyperpro springs last spring front and rear to replace the worn out stock springs.
I still don't feel that I need to do anything to my suspension for the kind of riding I do (I don't play ricky-racer, hanging off and dragging knee, but I can move along at a respectable pace when I feel like it).
It just seems to me that esoterica like suspension tuning (and worrying obsessively over tire choices, etc...) are for people who are trying to extract the last little smidgen of performance on the track.

So, feel free to offer me some reasonable, researched explanations about the value of suspension tuning.
Are you sure it's not just a placebo effect for most of you? You've spent some money, an expert has done some tinkering with your forks and shock, so you're expecting the bike to be transformed. Is it really that noticable anywhere but on a track at full speed?

Is there really that much wrong with just riding your bike as it came from the dealer?

Flame on.

:rant
Click to expand...

IMHO..........no.

It made some difference...........noticable, on the '05ZX10 but I also noticed it is more sensitive to tire presure than any other bike I have owned including the TL1000. I believe it is worth while on the "edgier" bikes designed more for the track but not so much for other bikes.
 
Suspension adjustment depends on riding style, period. And BTW, racers will usually shitcan stock suspension and redo the valving and replace the shock. It's not because we like spending the money, it's because at speed the bike behaves better with good suspension. The OP noted he had problems with bumps in corners. That is indicative of suspension problems. Whether he wants to spend money sorting it is up to him. I will always throw a couple grand at a bike's suspension by the time I am through with it. Even the little SV with stock forks has had a huge amount of work, adjustment, fine tuning, emulators, several oil level changes and much work on ride height, front and rear.

Is it needed? Well my bike can be ridden a LOT faster than a stock SV on the track. On the street it's nice to have some adjustment, but if you learn to ride slow enough to avoid having problems, it's not needed. And I seldom ride fast enough on the street to even perturb stock suspension.
 
caponerd said:
Ok, I've read the entire thread for a change before replying.

I was actually a bit reluctant to say anything because I might be stepping on a lot of toes but...

Is "suspension setup" really all that important? When I bought my Aprilia Caponord, it handled so much better than anything I'd ever owned before (mostly old BMW's, a few Brits, a couple of hinged-in the middle older Japanese bikes) that the idea of "setting up" my suspension was the absolute last thing on my mind.
I was just having too much fun riding the Capo, including one track day, where I didn't for one instant feel that there was anything wrong with the handling, except for somewhat limited ground clearance.
To this day (5 years and 40,000 miles), I still haven't "set up" my suspension, although I did finally buy a set of Hyperpro springs last spring front and rear to replace the worn out stock springs.
I still don't feel that I need to do anything to my suspension for the kind of riding I do (I don't play ricky-racer, hanging off and dragging knee, but I can move along at a respectable pace when I feel like it).
It just seems to me that esoterica like suspension tuning (and worrying obsessively over tire choices, etc...) are for people who are trying to extract the last little smidgen of performance on the track.

So, feel free to offer me some reasonable, researched explanations about the value of suspension tuning.
Are you sure it's not just a placebo effect for most of you? You've spent some money, an expert has done some tinkering with your forks and shock, so you're expecting the bike to be transformed. Is it really that noticable anywhere but on a track at full speed?

Is there really that much wrong with just riding your bike as it came from the dealer?

Flame on.

:rant
Click to expand...
Boy are you wrong. At one time i used to think kinda like this, but nowdays suspension is so advanced, it makes a huge differance, and the stock setting are a compromise for the average rider and riding style.
 
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gixxerboy55 said:
Boy are you wrong. At one time i used to think kinda like this, but nowdays suspension is so advanced, it makes a huge differance, and the stock setting are a compromise for the average rider and riding style.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure there's anything to be "wrong" about here, I was asking for edification, not necessarily disagreeing.
I described my own history (with implication that my Aprilia is the first "modern" motorcycle I've ever owned), offering my own experience and opinion on suspension tuning as it's applied to me in the past.

I'm getting that with modern sportbikes, suspension tuning is way more important than it is with a "standard" type motorcycle like anything over 25 years old, or a modern "dual sport".

That said, I'll point out that I've ridden a lot of bikes over the years with badly worn out suspension systems, and found that the short term solution (until you've either replaced the worn out unit, when possible, or sold the bike) is to slow down and ride within the capability of the bike. This is still a habit with me, since I have a number of old bikes in my garage that I ride more or less regularly, and some of them, even with the best available components (can I still get new springs that are suitable for a Royal Enfield Interceptor?) don't handle particularly well by modern standards, and there isn't a lot that can be done to fix that even if you do put modern suspension on a flexible 40 year old frame with 3 inch wide tires.

I suppose that in support of the consensus among younger riders (or experienced racers and track junkies), I should point out that after several years of annual rides around Marin County on my Aprilia with worn-out springs, I was shocked to discover that many of the roads I've ridden on between Petaluma and Bolinas are a lot bumpier than I remembered them, after putting my new Hyperpro springs on the bike, and those are supposed to be progressive springs.
I suspect that lighter oil in my front shocks will help a lot.

I'll have to try changing the fork oil though, before can I agree that it's the most important adjustment I can make to my bike.
And thanks for the flame-free responses.

<edit>
Just an afterthought: While in the process of learning that Point Reyes/Petaluma Rd. is a lot bumpier than I remembered, I have to say that I didn't really notice a "loss of traction in bumpy corners" as the OP was concerned about. I did notice that the road seemed bumpier than usual, and kept that in mind as I was on it.

Consistent with a couple of the responses to my original question about suspension setup, I think that if someone finds that the stock damping or spring rate (or tire pressure that's not grossly out of spec.) is causing loss of traction, they're probably riding outside of the normally accepted safety margin for public roads.

I'll continue to maintain that while suspension setup may be important, it's not so critical as to cause any modern motorcycle ridden within a proper safety margin to become dangerous to ride.
 
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fwiw, I find that 1/2 worn tires screw w/ the handeling of the Kawi a lot more than the suspension set up. Due to my commute, 280 to work and 84 returning, the rear gets flat in the middle and the front has a peak. Put a lot of miles on it and therefore not going to throw them out at under 2K mi. Like Caponerd said, when it is less than optimal I just adjust the speed accordingly. Obviously if going to the track or if I plan on riding w/ friends on the weekend I change the tires out and can appriciate the tuned suspension.

On the standard tire wear does not seem to change the handling much and I doubt tuning the suspension would change it much either.:2cents
 
Well the OP has not even told us if his bike is set to stock settings.

Give me 5 minutes on a modern bike with adjustable suspension and I'm confident I can adjust it so that it skitters over bumps by overdoing the adjustments...but I'm not confident I can maximize the adjustments as well as a pro in terms of compliance, which is what it's all about.

Most older bikes with "basic" suspensions that I had (Nighthawk 750, Seca 550) were transformed by modestly improving the suspension via Progressive and Race Tech.

My '87 K75S actually came from the factory with an unadjustable, but decent suspension which was improved by using a Fox shock on the rear after the original broke at the top mounting point when putting it on the centerstand, (yeah, that was recalled but they gave me $$ toward the better Fox shock which gave excellent service for the 20 years I had it).

My '97 TL1000S had the worst suspension imaginable from the factory and did what the OP's suspension does and more, (can you say tankslapper?). It took Lindemann and Ohlins to help solve those horrific problems.

I find the suspension on my '06 DRZ400SM and my '08 F800ST to be very good out of the box, and even though both might benefit from a stiffer front spring, I'm not in a hurry to do that yet.

So yeah, it kinda all depends on the bike and how it was originally set up when you got it; either from the factory or from the previous owner.

I'm guessing a multistrada set up properly with factory settings as a good place to start should NOT skitter over bumps so perhaps the original owner screwed it up by twiddling in the wrong directions or there is some other issue.

The OP should start here with the suggestions from Sport Rider:

http://www.sportrider.com/suspension_settings/146_0402_suspension_setup_guide/index.html
 
My '97 TL1000S had the worst suspension imaginable from the factory and did what the OP's suspension does and more, (can you say tankslapper?). It took Lindemann and Ohlins to help solve those horrific problems.
Click to expand...

Wow. Was 97 the first year for the TL? If it was bad enough to cause tankslappers, that's something that should have been fixed by the factory pretty quickly.
 
Yeah capo, I made the mistake with the TL of getting year number one (I still have the bike...the '97's are quite rare especially in the green which I have).

It came with that horrific "rotary damper" masquerading as a rear shock and with no steering damper.

There was a recall to add the steering damper for free due to many tankslapper related crashes and fatals...but truly the whole suspension sucked and they should have recalled that rotary rear damper it was such a piece of crap. Mine was evidently the last rotary damper Lindemann tried to revalve...they gave up after that and came out with a Penske replacement shock as the true answer after I'd bought the Ohlins, (both excellent answers to the problem).

The fact that the bike's ECU was also improperly setup, and the originals came with a lightswitch throttle, didn't help. Poor fueling plus non compliant suspension are a very bad combo.

I gave up on the factory ECU "fixes" and bought a power commander which made a huge difference.

I'm guessing there was no worse bike in recent history more poorly setup from a fueling and suspension standpoint than that bike as delivered in '97.

All fixed now of course, thanks to the aftermarket and several thousand dollars in cash.
 
I think what I experienced could be described as tank slappin'. Although as I said, that's been partly improved by proper air pressure, and I would presume proper technique, which would also help keep enough weight on the front tire. the 4400 miles of wear on the Pirellis probably is also contributing to a certain extent.

Ace insists to me that the suspension settings are stock. In either case I have an appt at SCC on Monday for a set up and I'll post feedback.
 
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