Mastering a 600ss

[orbframe]

how are your parking lot figure 8's? you need more PLP before you increase engine size.

I don't have any hard data to back this up but I believe it's true so it is.

 

[flying_hun]

how are your parking lot figure 8's? you need more PLP before you increase engine size.

I don't have any hard data to back this up but I believe it's true so it is.

Probably at least 5 years of it. arty

 

[FXCLM5]

Turbo busa ftw.

No in all honesty I've had a 600, 750, and now a 1000.

No power till the tach is screaming on a 600

Loved the 750 on the street and track

Bought the litre cuz it was too good of a deal, love it on the street but its ridiculous to tame on the track

 

[planegray]

I have been riding off and on for about 7.5 years (about 10-12k miles) on just 500s/600s, I would consider myself to be an ok rider, but far from a great rider.For me a 600ss is more than enough bike. I understand that people buy bigger bikes (ie: 1000cc) because they are very skilled riders or they simply want more torque than a 600ss offers.

I wanted to ask people that ride larger displacement bikes, were you able to master a 600cc before moving up? By mastering a bike, I mean ride it to virtually all of its potential. If so, how long did it take you to confidently master a 600ss? I know riders come in all shapes and sizes and some people just have it in their blood. Was your 600cc not enough bike for you?

To be honest, I'm pretty sure that if I only put 12k miles on in 7 years, I'd be trying to figure out that shifter thingy pretty much everytime I rode


My best answer, is a (paraphrased) quote I saw in a barfers sigline;

" the bike is no longer the hobby, it has been replaced and, now it's the skill that is the hobby"

 

[Sirdrinksalot]

Thanks everybody for the input. I understand my lack of total confidence is probably based on my low mileage. In the 7.5 years of riding, I have gone through periods where I have had a bike or two and then through periods where I have not had a bike for a couple years, that's why I have only ridden close to about 12k. While I enjoy the power my 600 has, I know that I am far from being a great rider on it. I recently rode a Ninja 650 and was impressed by how confident I was on that bike compared to my ZX6R. While I know I still am not a great rider on the Ninja 650, I felt that I could "push it" much faster in a safer manner than I could on my ZX6R.

While I don't intend to sell my ZX6R anytime soon, it might not be a bad idea for me to explore the option of a bike with a little bit of power to sharpen my skills and build up my confidence. Let me ask, have some people felt like they greatly helped improve their riding skill by dropping down to a bike with less power?

 

[iamrob]

imo 99.9% of riders (including me) do not master their bike ever.

 

[flying_hun]

have some people felt like they greatly helped improve their riding skill by dropping down to a bike with less power?

Lower powered bikes are often more confidence inspiring. That's been my experience.

Go up to Rich Oliver's and see if you can "master" 10 hp.

 

[Gary856]

While I don't intend to sell my ZX6R anytime soon, it might not be a bad idea for me to explore the option of a bike with a little bit of power to sharpen my skills and build up my confidence. Let me ask, have some people felt like they greatly helped improve their riding skill by dropping down to a bike with less power?

My DRZsm helps me in that regard. It's super easy to turn, very fun, builds up a lot of confidence in me, which allows me to ride harder on my bigger bikes.

 

[jraice]

For track riding a slower bike can help with a lot of things. On a higher HP bike you may not realize how slow your corner entry speed is because you are lighting up the tire and flying out of every corner like a bullet. Riding a smaller bike (like the 250 I rented at Infineon last month) forced me to carry a lot more momentum and not rely as much on the power to get me up to speed on the exits.

Once you have "mastered" corner entry on a smaller bike, then you can combine your new found entry speed with your power (you'll have to "master" hard exits) and get the total package.

I have met a few A/B riders that have/have ridden a GSX-R 750 and a 1000. They all said they were faster on the 750, even at Thill (fast track).

 

[Burning1]

While I don't intend to sell my ZX6R anytime soon, it might not be a bad idea for me to explore the option of a bike with a little bit of power to sharpen my skills and build up my confidence. Let me ask, have some people felt like they greatly helped improve their riding skill by dropping down to a bike with less power?

You're getting a lot of comments in this thread, not because of the kind of information you're asking about, but because of the way you are asking about it.

Confidence is relative, like a lot of other things in motorcycling. If you're asking about feeling confident in your riding ability, IMO a literbike won't really help. If you make a mistake and scare yourself shitless, your confidence is going to take a dive. On the other hand, you might get a small confidence (ego) boost from feeling faster than the people you ride with. Course, that can turn into a huge ego hit if someone out-rides you on a 250.

Yes, I have tremendously improved my riding on a small bike, compared to the skill I had while riding a GSX-R 600. Small bikes expose flaws in your riding, because when you make a mistake you really can't gloss over it by twisting the throttle. A small bike really exposes you for the rider you are. I've seen lots of guys riding literbikes in the A group, who really belong in B. I haven't seen a lot of C level riders putting their Ninja 250 in the B group.

My observation is that it's far easier to put down a decent lap time (b group) on a fast bike than a slow bike... But it's far easier to ride a slow bike near it's limits than a big bike.

 

[rritterson]

I think the 600 class of I4s may actually be the most difficult class to 'master' in all of motorcycling.

Why? They are the most high-strung hard to ride bishes out there. No torque down low requires lots of clutch feathering. Too lean stock fueling makes them snatchy at low throttle openings. Very tight suspension puts every bump in your back. Crouched riding position amplifies body positioning mistakes. Then you get it going in the twisties and the bike turns ON! and you run out of room before your brain compensates. Stab the brakes too hard because you panic and you squish your nuts or worse. And I can go on. At least a liter bike has torque to make city riding bearable

Not that it makes them shitty bikes, but you have to enjoy a tough challenge, which takes some of the intrinsic 'enjoy the sun and scenery' fun of just riding.

Put it this way: riding my DR is like banging the moderately hot chick next door who is down to get laid any which way at any time and has fun doing it, making you feel like a superstud hero. The R6 is like banging that super hot marina girl you somehow persuaded to have sex with you, and, unless you screw her just right she's going to get bored, lie there like a dead fish, and roll her eyes at you making you feel like a loser. But, if you F her just right, it's the time of your life. It just take a shitload of practice and the right time/place to do it. R6's have daddy issues, DR's do not.

 

[russ69]

...The R6 is like banging that super hot marina girl you somehow persuaded to have sex with you..

Well said. With more confidence, you can bang them all...oops, I mean ride them all...oops, never mind.

 

[joe blow]

I'm not good on a 600 yet, but now I think a 1000 is better for me. 95% of my riding is for commuting; Of course a 600 has more than enough power, but I really appreciate the chunkiness, added weight, more planted feeling, and convenience of having to shift less on a 1000. Basically I wanna ride a liter bike like a cruiser but hate the fact that I'm gonna look like a poser.

 

[jraice]

I'm not good on a 600 yet, but now I think a 1000 is better for me. 95% of my riding is for commuting; Of course a 600 has more than enough power, but I really appreciate the chunkiness, added weight, more planted feeling, and convenience of having to shift less on a 1000. Basically I wanna ride a liter bike like a cruiser but hate the fact that I'm gonna look like a poser.

Get a standard. More midrange and more comfortable. Much less poser.

 

[Ogg]

OK I have to say it...
It isn't what you ride it's how you ride it.
My SO is a freaking machine on anything. As I mentioned earlier out of 9 bikes he seems to always take my 600.

So what you ride rides what you ride? arty

And to the OP, low horsepower bikes can be an absolute hoot. Low HP does not, except in straights, mean slow. On a twisty road a skillfully ridden two-fiddy or sumo will pass a poorly ridden liter bike like it's chained to a stump. While you work up teh mad skillz to pull off such tricks, the lower HP bikes are infinitely more forgiving of certain types of mistakes.

 

[joe blow]

Get a standard. More midrange and more comfortable. Much less poser.

but 1000 superbikes just look so cool
I don't dig any sporty standards out right now... I really like the new monsters yet according to barf those are poser bikes too :|

Really, I'm pretty convinced that an under-capable rider on a 1000 has less to do with cockiness and over confidence... barf forgets that most riders don't aspire to drag knee... some people just want particular bikes.

 

[Banjoboy]

imo 99.9% of riders (including me) do not master their bike ever.

I guess it depends on one's definition of "mastery." I think the op's just talk'in 'bout have'in good control over his bike, where as most here think mastery is being able to ride WFO all day long.
It's like learn'in the banjo; at first you have to think 'bout where yer fingers are, the rhythmz, annotations, strum'in... But after you achieve mastery, you just think 'bout what you want to play, and you can play it.

Same fer ride'in a scooter. It sounds like the op is at a stage where he's think'in 'bout whatz go'in on with himself, the bike, and his inputs?
A person can achiever mastery of a bike without have'in ta be as fast as 97, 34, or 46. Once you reach a point where yer not think'in 'bout yer inputs, when you can look up the road, know where you want to be, (Through any given corner) and be there, you have achieved a certain degree of mastery.

Get a standard. More midrange and more comfortable. Much less poser.

^THIS^ If the op has a comfortable bike, he can ride more miles and gain experience, but reading and riding with others will help too.

Good luck,

 

[louemc]

but 1000 superbikes just look so cool
I don't dig any sporty standards out right now... I really like the new monsters yet according to barf those are poser bikes too :|

Really, I'm pretty convinced that an under-capable rider on a 1000 has less to do with cockiness and over confidence... barf forgets that most riders don't aspire to drag knee... some people just want particular bikes.

That's very valid. Liter Super bikes are more than Look cool though, they have that look, because they are serious bikes.

That, in the hands of a rider that has honed and developed judgement to control themselves...is a safety factor, riding a bike that responds/acts in that higher level of bike ability.

Now...there is the little matter of sitting right, for where your riding (another safety factor)..And two choices jump out. You can put street handle bars on that Super Sport bike that is being ridden on the street....Or buy the new Aprilia Tunono V4R that comes with the bars in the right place, or a Duc Monster.

No matter what exciting bike there is, there will be posers, picking it. Screw the Posers...Pick the bike that works and enjoy it. The Posers don't make the rules.

Anyway...what ever Ya Want, it's available to be enjoyed.

 

[flying_hun]

Once you reach a point where yer not think'in 'bout yer inputs, when you can look up the road, know where you want to be, (Through any given corner) and be there, you have achieved a certain degree of mastery.

You make a good point, Andy. That said, there are different levels of "think'in 'bout yer inputs". It's one thing to think about "throttle off, clutch in, shift up, clutch out, throttle on", and it's another to think about "how could I have done that last corner better?".

Occasionally, I reach the zen-like state of presence and and quiet mind while riding, but mostly my brain is yapping away - reading the road ahead, evaluating other road users, critiquing that last corner - but not so much about inputs.

 

[reidconti]

I'm not good on a 600 yet, but now I think a 1000 is better for me. 95% of my riding is for commuting; Of course a 600 has more than enough power, but I really appreciate the chunkiness, added weight, more planted feeling, and convenience of having to shift less on a 1000. Basically I wanna ride a liter bike like a cruiser but hate the fact that I'm gonna look like a poser.

Sounds like you have the wrong engine configuration. Some people said a literbike would solve the torque deficit of my CBR600F3. But the F3 had more than enough HP, so, to me, adding MORE HP to get torque as a byproduct was a completely inelegant solution.