MazdaSpeed3 vs WRX

[nuclearalex]

Cheyenne, I have done go-kart racing a few times and i liked it..

Wil, Andy, thanks for the recommendations

 

[some_random_guy]

last time i tried to go go kart racing i couldnt fit, my legs were too long lol, anyone know where a tall guy can go go kart racing

 

[Cheyenne]

I'm aware that you can reduce the push by letting up a bit on the throttle and load up the front with the natural front weight bias.

If you add a bit of steering, or the car is set up right, you can get oversteer, not just a reduction in push.

I understand I'll never get the same power down capability of a RWD as I'm then pulling weight from the drive end, but right up until that point, what am I losing with FWD, besides feel and respect?

Also...how slick would the track have to be before FWD had the advantage over RWD for two cars with the same power and weight? Or would RWD always win?

 

[MtnRacer]

Not sure if somebody already posted this or not, but here you go OP:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=7103

Steve

 

[theAmazingKickstand]

I'm aware that you can reduce the push by letting up a bit on the throttle and load up the front with the natural front weight bias. But it's still limited in what you can do compared to rear or all wheel drive. Nothing you can say is gonna bring me into the fwd supporter camp. And I doubt you'll change anyone elses mind too. So how long you really want to continue a futile debate?

I fully support my boyfriend on this

 

[Mike T]

If the OP was really happy with the Integra, why not continue on with the Honda reliability and go for a used RSX. I'm no fan of FWD but an RSX is certainly a fun car to drive. Especially on a tight mountain road. I took an RSX Type-S on 84 once and it felt like it was more capable through the S bends than my much more powerful Corvette. But if the desire is really for a a five door hatch/wagon...then yeah all these other suggestions are worthless.

well...if you want Honda reliability and RWD...why not get the S2000....?

 

[TheRobSJ]

If you add a bit of steering, or the car is set up right, you can get oversteer, not just a reduction in push.

I understand I'll never get the same power down capability of a RWD as I'm then pulling weight from the drive end, but right up until that point, what am I losing with FWD, besides feel and respect?

Also...how slick would the track have to be before FWD had the advantage over RWD for two cars with the same power and weight? Or would RWD always win?

I am also aware of how to get oversteer. In a rear driver, you can power oversteer with extra throttle, or if you're a clod with no skill and/or balls, you can induce oversteer by lifting off the throtle. With front drive, the power oversteer thing isn't happening (instead you get power understeer), but you can still bring the back end around by unloading it by lifting off the throttle.

What are you losing with FWD besides feel (respect? ehhh, fuck that. who cares what others think)? If you don't know, then I honestly don't have to time to decribe it. All I can say is until you've properly caned a RWD car on the same track as a FWD car that you think is all that...you really don't have much to back up your arguements. I've lost count of how many times I've tried to educate the rice boys of the world who swear up and down that their hopped up Civic is the best thing ever, and my American muscle cars are unreliable crap that can't handle. I sometimes feel that the difference in car smarts is so vast that it'd be like Stephen Hawking vs. an inbred high school dropout debating over if the world is flat or not. Not saying you're that bad. You seem like you know a bit about cars. And I'm not saying that railing a FWD car ain't fun. I'm pefectly willing to recommend the Maszaspeed 3 or a RSX in this thread, because that's the kind of car the OP is looking for. A Corvette or other purpose built sports car like a Miata, S2k, or 911 is just not in the same class as the speed 3 or WRX. FWD sport compacts are plenty fun to a certain point. But they have limitations. Limitations that are built in because of FWD. FWD is a compromise made by manufacturers. They gave up performance and handling in favor of packaging and vehicle weight. Granted, they have done wonders with front drive. But there's only so far it can go. The Acura TL...almost 300hp now. In front drive only, it's a torque steering, understeering, not so very fun car to drive once you go past 7/10ths. Now they added AWD. Heavier, but it makes the car more drivable to the limit. Now, 350hp or even 400hp is something that platform can handle.

 

[TheRobSJ]

well...if you want Honda reliability and RWD...why not get the S2000....?

Nice car. And one of the best looking Hondas ever. Yeah the NSX still turns heads, but the S2k has a cleaner, more pure look to it.

But. #1 it's a 'vert. You're either looking for a droptop or you're not. There's no, I'll look at the WRX or Evo or some other sedan....and then go decide to get a very impractical two seat roadster. And #2, no torque. I know the AP2 is a bit better with the low end power, but the fun one is the 9k redline AP1. But you have to rev the tits off it constantly to keep it moving. No like.

 

[some_random_guy]

no torque. I know the AP2 is a bit better with the low end power, but the fun one is the 9k redline AP1. But you have to rev the tits off it constantly to keep it moving. No like.

2JZ S2K, its the best mod you can do to an s2k, get the 2JZ engine from a supra, and stick into an S2K, that should solve your torque issue now you have to find a way to keep the front bumper on

 

[TheRobSJ]

And Chuck Mallett will be happy to take a Saturn Sky(my choice) or a Pontiac Solstice and drop a LSx V8 in there. All the way up to a turbocharged 7.0L Z06 motor. 900hp in such a little car? Now that's a handful.

http://www.mallettcars.com/sky-conversion.htm

 

[some_random_guy]

And Chuck Mallett will be happy to take a Saturn Sky(my choice) or a Pontiac Solstice and drop a LSx V8 in there. All the way up to a turbocharged 7.0L Z06 motor. 900hp in such a little car? Now that's a handful.

http://www.mallettcars.com/sky-conversion.htm

that yellow saturn sky looks awesome, be nice to have that in black, and a hard top, never was a fan for convertibles, if i do go with an american car, its either that car, or a 69 gto judge with a 455 and t56 tranny (personal choice on that part)

 

[Cheyenne]

In a rear driver, you can power oversteer with extra throttle, or if you're a clod with no skill and/or balls, you can induce oversteer by lifting off the throtle.

So it takes less skill and balls to enter the corner faster and use lift throttle? Are you really going to keep the front end on line if you spin the rear tires up? transferring weight to the front will give you grip there, losing grip at the back does not automatically give you front grip does it?

Picture being in the middle of a corner, coming in to the apex, the front starts to move off line to the outside, you can stab the throttle, and rear steer to get the yaw angle back where it should be, but how does that keep the front end from moving off line the way adding traction by shifting weight up there would? Unless you keep the front end tight to the apex, you will lose corner speed no? Perhaps I'm missing something. I take it you've done both and it's faster to break the rear loose with power?

 

[some_random_guy]

So it takes less skill and balls to enter the corner faster and use lift throttle? Are you really going to keep the front end on line if you spin the rear tires up? transferring weight to the front will give you grip there, losing grip at the back does not automatically give you front grip does it?

Picture being in the middle of a corner, coming in to the apex, the front starts to move off line to the outside, you can stab the throttle, and rear steer to get the yaw angle back where it should be, but how does that keep the front end from moving off line the way adding traction by shifting weight up there would? Unless you keep the front end tight to the apex, you will lose corner speed no? Perhaps I'm missing something. I take it you've done both and it's faster to break the rear loose with power?

Why do you keep arguing about how FWD is superior, it isn't, if you honestly think a car like a crx or taurus, is good, then why should anyone listen, FWD isn't the superior drive train, it will never be, stop talking about it

 

[Cheyenne]

Why do you keep arguing about how FWD is superior, it isn't, if you honestly think a car like a crx or taurus, is good, then why should anyone listen, FWD isn't the superior drive train, it will never be, stop talking about it

I wasn't talking at all about FWD here, I was talking about line tightening strategies mid corner. Please do try to keep up.

I don't think the Taurus is good, I just think I was able to have fun driving it. The CRX was suggested to me by a race instructor, and it's reputation as a great handling car stands on it's own.

 

[some_random_guy]

I wasn't talking at all about FWD here, I was talking about line tightening strategies mid corner. Please do try to keep up.

I don't think the Taurus is good, I just think I was able to have fun driving it. The CRX was suggested to me by a race instructor, and it's reputation as a great handling car stands on it's own.

close enough

crx is meh, get a pagini zonda, or a porsche carrera gt, that car will make you go by the way i was bored and started watching top gear all morning

 

[Cheyenne]

crx is meh, get a pagini zonda, or a porsche carrera gt, that car will make you go

A buddy was allowed to drive some guy's Carrera GT on a track. He said that at 100mph it would slam his head against the headrest if he goosed it...But it weighs 3000Lbs. I'd rather have a replica 356 Carrera GT. 150HP should work nicely.

But really, personally, I think I can be happy with a lower powered car on the street, I just want something that's light and feels good to drive, with no power steering. One that doesn't need to be "forced" into the corners, and has quick enough steering for easy recovery.

 

[TheRobSJ]

So it takes less skill and balls to enter the corner faster and use lift throttle? Are you really going to keep the front end on line if you spin the rear tires up? transferring weight to the front will give you grip there, losing grip at the back does not automatically give you front grip does it?

Picture being in the middle of a corner, coming in to the apex, the front starts to move off line to the outside, you can stab the throttle, and rear steer to get the yaw angle back where it should be, but how does that keep the front end from moving off line the way adding traction by shifting weight up there would? Unless you keep the front end tight to the apex, you will lose corner speed no? Perhaps I'm missing something. I take it you've done both and it's faster to break the rear loose with power?

The answer is this...you're fucked no matter what wheels are being driven. You're gonna have to lose corner speed no matter what to keep the line. At least without front drive, you have the option of laying into the throttle and drifting around the corner. But the best thing to do no matter what is to lift a bit and let speed scrub off till you get your line back. No drive can make up for coming into a turn too hot. Though some stability control systems that brake an inside wheel come close.

 

[some_random_guy]

A buddy was allowed to drive some guy's Carrera GT on a track. He said that at 100mph it would slam his head against the headrest if he goosed it...But it weighs 3000Lbs. I'd rather have a replica 356 Carrera GT. 150HP should work nicely.

But really, personally, I think I can be happy with a lower powered car on the street, I just want something that's light and feels good to drive, with no power steering. One that doesn't need to be "forced" into the corners, and has quick enough steering for easy recovery.

youre giving a thumbsdown to a 600 hp v10 in a 3000 pound body that car is one of the best cars in the world, and you give it a thumbs down, first you hate AWD, then RWD, then my precious carrera gt, thats going over the line

 

[nuclearalex]

ok thread closed! I am a proud new owner of a subaru

 

[}Dragon{]

ok thread closed! I am a proud new owner of a subaru

Congrats!