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New 250 Ninja, disappointing

kneedrag said:
Same as the old with new bodywork, larger 17s and a 2 into 1. Too bad...
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I applaud Kawasaki for keeping the initial price point so affordable, at $3,499! I think that the looks improvement alone would easily justify the $500 increase.

The bike is still targeted as a "starter bike with sportbike appeal", and as such, anticipating major sportbike performance parts (fully adjustable suspension, fuel injection, radial brakes, etc.) to have migrated into the updated bike is quite unrealistic.

Yes, Kawasaki could have made a 250 (or 300cc) with all modern components, but to cover the parts costs the bike's pricing would have been well over $5,000, and left the bikes sitting on the showroom floors collecting dust (as the $4,500 CB-1's and NT-650's of the early 90's showed Honda).

Predict that they'll "sell the _hit" out of these little bikes!
 
I think it looks good. The reason some new riders don't buy a 250 is mostly because of the looks (of course they also think a 250 is slow). This will make more first time rider buy it.
 
I want one for my second bike :)
 
no kidding, holeshot. did you read the other thread ? i was bored so i did. so many comments of 'looks sweet dude', 'blue looks killer', 'looks better than the 6R'. squids on barf ? who knew ? ha. on the plus side, i hear it has traction control built in as factory equipment.


as for 250p, i doubt that the afm nixed that class, and that wasn't my goal anyway.

my goal(the proposal i submitted) was to have the afm create a mimimum number of entrants required to hold a class race. they may have axed 2 classes (woo hoo, or boo hoo, as your position may be), but i doubt the board had the brass or the foresight to to actually create a plan. so, my proposal actually had nothing to do with 250p, or at least nothing more to do with 250p than OGP. if two people showed up for OGP, it should be cancelled, duh.
 
Re: Re: New 250 Ninja, disappointing

Gary J said:
I applaud Kawasaki for keeping the initial price point so affordable, at $3,499!

Predict that they'll "sell the _hit" out of these little bikes!
Click to expand...

FWIW. I agree with both statements, but seeing this is the Racer's Forum and why I posted it here, I fail to see this "new" version helping promote light weight racing.
 
I think it looks really pretty. I am in love with the headlights :) which is the feature I dislike on mine ;)
 
The new 250 has 17-inch wheels, more horsepower, and a supposedly better frame....how is this not superior to the old 250 from a racing perspective?
 
Well, more horsepower remains to be seen. The only numbers I've seen are for the FI europe model. 17 inch wheels, yes that would be better, but unsure about the size of the rear (I've read 110 up front, 130 rear), do they make a stickey 130? Frame -- yes! will be better. The question is will the better frame make up for what will be most likely a signifigant power deficit compared to pre 2005 built 250's, which make up 90% of the grid now. I hope it is competitive, makes enough power, handles well enough, and has a good tire selelction, to allow some new life to a shrinking grid.

Craig
 
I'm just going by the marketing blurb posted but, I don't read more hp or better frame anywhere. "revisions to its dual overhead camshafts" could mean different cam-timing sacrificing top-end to meet emissions standards.

Time will tell.
 
This bike is just what the market needed. It's cool looking, with wheels that can actually fit a modern tire..... Even if the frame and HP were not better (they are), those two updates alone are worth the extra cost.

For all you single guys out there, be glad, be very glad because this bike will be responsible for bringing many, many new single women into your sport....
 
How many years have BARF'ers been saying "I wish they'd make 250's look more like real sport bikes so they'd be more attractive to new riders"?

They finally do, and people are bitching.

I say good job Kawasaki, get people into the market the right way.
 
Actually, I think you'll find that most "racers" care nothing about looks (minus Timmer), and as Shawn is identifying, concentrate on specs. This new bike isn't a "new bike", it's really just lipstick on a pig if there is no frame/ engine upgrades. I couldn't find anything about a new frame either.

The brakes look like a decent upgrade. Other than that, for racing I'm with Shawn...this thing isn't it. Bravo to Kawasaki though. As Carman correctly identified: these were made to get groceries, not race in the AFM. The SV's make a fine class that doesn't take the race time of two races nearly, to complete...
 
Very refreshing to see...fantastic looking bike. Heck, I wouldn't mind thrashing one of those around. My girlfriend says she wants one - go figure :laughing
 
OK I'll bite

GESR1 said:
This bike is just what the market needed. It's cool looking, with wheels that can actually fit a modern tire..... Even if the frame and HP were not better (they are), those two updates alone are worth the extra cost.
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Where may I ask have you read a better frame or better HP? Insider info or you reading deeper than I am? If this true then Kawasaki has a terrible marketing dept.

But then again look at the verbage for the new ZX-10R: "At the heart of this capable package is a new engine tuned for even greater high-rpm performance, without sacrificing the stellar mid-range performance of its predecessor."

For the new chassis the longest run-on sentence in recent history: "To achieve the best-possible handling, Kawasaki used the lessons learned at the track to build a list of refinements including: changing the length of the steering tube and moving it 10mm forward, alleviating stress concentrations through subtle changes to the frame stampings (switching concave parts to convex pieces), increasing the wall thickness around the relocated swingarm pivot, adding ribbing on the interior of the pivot plate, and mounting a narrower, two-piece sub-frame to the main frame’s upper cross member."

For racing applications a 110/70 X 17 & 130/70 X 17 (parts binned from the 500, like the front forks?) isn't going to fit a "modern" race tire either.


Originally posted by antarius
How many years have BARF'ers been saying "I wish they'd make 250's look more like real sport bikes so they'd be more attractive to new riders"?
Click to expand...

Who's been saying this in the Racer's corner? :confused
 
Holeshot said:
these were made to get groceries, not race in the AFM. The SV's make a fine class that doesn't take the race time of two races nearly, to complete...
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I don't understand the motivation for folks (especially an intelligent guy like Berto) to feel compelled to constantly look for negative comments to sling at the Ninja 250?

It's hard to get most folks (especially seasoned racers on big HP machines) to believe that the challenge of riding the wheels off lightweight little low HP machine (like a Ninja 250) on track, can actually be an incredibly "ear-to-ear grin" racing experience. An experience that in some ways (for me at least) is actually MORE fun then the thousands of miles spent on track on 150+HP machines, like my ZX-10R.

No, the '08 Ninja 250 is not a high tech "ready-to-take-it-to-the -track" racer, with a license plate. No missed target on that account, by Kawasaki. The bike hits the mark exactly, for what the marketing guys, and engineering team, had on their design/build slate when they embarked upon the project. I have no doubt the sales figures will support that belief. Again kudos to KHI for the value this bike will bring to the real world of motorcycling.

Can it, and will it, make a very nice little platform for small-displacement, "Production" class racing? Absolutely!

As for the "only good for getting groceries" comment, thanks for the chuckle Berto. :laughing Cutting a few mid-2:11's at T-Hill, while passing a good portion of the big-displacement bikes in AFM Practice Group #2 on Saturday, might be seen as an interesting perspective on a "Grocery Run". :applause

Berto, I'd welcome you to swing a leg over a class-legal 250P machine at the track, and see what kind of times you can put on the clock, while riding one of these 30HP "grocery getters". Might be a fun, and eye opening experience. :)

Cheers,
Gary J
 
>Who's been saying this in the Racer's corner?

and, we agree on something.


i like the first line of the promo material:

"One look at the new Ninja 250R tells everyone that this bike is the genuine article."

LOL.


and then:
"....this is the most stylish performer in its category"

followed very closely by:

"....how much fun it is to ride and the fact that it’s the only 250cc sportbike sold in the U.S., "




here's the best plan for these bikes.

we get kawasaki to give us 20 new bikes for a new race series, 'spec formula grudge-match' as a promotional stunt.

no mods(zero ! no brakes, no tires, etc) will be made to the bikes during the season, and no maintainence is permitted. each race weekend the participants will draw a machine number and have to race that. entry in the race series will be a pre-season 'biggest grudge' competition(rules TBD) to determine elgibility for the 20 slots. at the end of the season, kawasaki gets whatever is left, and whichever rider has the most grudge points gets the grudge-master title.

races will be 4 laps. there will be no assigned grid positions - the only rules will be that bikes must line up behind the starting line and must not be touching another bike prior to the green flag. FP points scoring will be used.

should the 20 bikes be reduced due to accidents or mechanicals, those with the lowest number of points in class will be dropped from the rest of the season races.
 
Gary, that 2:11 on an illegal motor, or legal on? JK! I'd welcome you back to the 600 class where the men chase the boys...

I've had Kim/Siggy tell me hooking up with others guys is something to try. When I'm 90 and on my deathbed, maybe I'll put some balls in my face for the coup De grais....but not until then! It's no different on a 250 prod bike. Just as soon as I get those balls out of my face, I'll mount up!

Besides, if I was gonna run 250 prod class, we all know it'd be on my 49hp DRZ400SM! I tell the truth about 250's because it's the truth. You know they race lawnmowers in GA too, right?

Just because it's a bike, doesn't mean it's meant to be raced.

Love it all you want, but don't be so delusional as to think Kawi updated their bike to win AFM 250 production. They updated it make it look cooler to STILL get groceries with. There's no shame in that...
 
Holeshot said:
The SV's make a fine class that doesn't take the race time of two races nearly, to complete...
Click to expand...

Well with that logic, the 600 crash fest classes should be removed for taking up so much time with the red flags and all ;)
 
considering the leader of the 600 races completes the race in under 1/2 the time of the 250 prod leaders, there's some fudge time in there...
 
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