• There has been a recent cluster of spammers accessing BARFer accounts and posting spam. To safeguard your account, please consider changing your password. It would be even better to take the additional step of enabling 2 Factor Authentication (2FA) on your BARF account. Read more here.

non musician asking a musical question. I think.

900ss

900ss

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Location
San Jose CA
Moto(s)
None, but my brother has 56 and counting.
Name
Ken
I have this need to learn every note, beat, sound, rythm etc. of certain songs. It boils down to playing them over and over and over - and over, ad nauseam to some, - usually through headphones so my wife and son don't shoot me - and trying to mentally catalog everything I hear.

That being said, I don't play any instrument. I think I am capable of keeping rhythm with music, but some may disagree.

I do this by listening through headphones that I enjoy, my favorite bluetooth speaker - a Nyne Bass,- and the stereo system in my car. This allows me to pick up on various nuances the various sound systems afford me.

The current song I'm picking apart is "Count on Me" by Jefferson Starship. So.... - those under 50-odd years of age probably won't give a rat's ass. As Jefferson Starship was reviled by many, perhaps not many Barfers will care anyway.

Questions; how many guitars are there in the studio version, 2 or 3? What key is the piano tuned in, and the guitar that seems to keep time with the piano? What is the time measure? It seems to me to be 5 beats or some such; again I am not schooled in music.

If I haven't said so already (or made it clear through the above) I love this song. Marty Balin's vocals (RIP), Grace Slick's backing and the other musicians on the recording are amazing IMHO.

There is a Youtube video of a rehearsal that is particularly intriguing to me as all are unplugged. It looks like pure musical bliss to me.

Let the flaming begin! Or perhaps some enlightenment will be afforded me by those of you with musical talent.

Thanks, I think this could be a welcome diversion from the current news story of the day.
 
Last edited:
Just a quick first blush, but I’m hearing Amaj-4/4 time sig @ about 110bpm- 2 acoustic guitars + bass guitar
 
poach said:
Just a quick first blush, but I’m hearing Amaj-4/4 time sig @ about 110bpm- 2 acoustic guitars + bass guitar
Click to expand...

Again, I am not a musician, and I mean no disrespect to anyone, but as I tap out time to the studio version I get 5 beats. The guitar the follows the vocals "you can count on me", between "count on my love' seems to be 5. Per what, I couldn't explain but one of the guitars seems to be rhythmic in 5 beats. I wish I knew what I was talking about!

Any corrections and musical education (if that is possible) is most sincerely appreciated. I think if I live through this pandemic I might seek musical lessons on violin. :x
 
Sorry brother, I’m getting 4/4 :dunno


You should absolutely pursue your musical curiosity. It’s the gift that keeps on giving.:)
 
900ss said:
The current song I'm picking apart is "Count on Me" by Jefferson Starship. So.... - those under 50-odd years of age probably won't give a rat's ass. As Jefferson Starship was reviled by many, perhaps not many Barfers will care anyway!
Click to expand...

Oh, I dunno about that. I think STARSHIP was reviled by many, including STARSHIP I think. I will say that the STARSHIP concert I saw was one of the worst concerts I had ever seen. Just...not good. (And I actually like, you know, The Song That Shan't Be Mentioned.)

I haven't given a deep listen to their entire discography, but Nuclear Furniture is one of my favorite albums. When I bought my first CD player, the first two disks were Rush - Moving Pictures, and Nuclear Furniture.

I tend to listen to CDs on repeat at work, I organically memorize the songs. I don't pick them apart like you do, but I know the work. I distinctly recall riding out to the Grand Canyon one day, and I recounted the entirety of Moving Pictures, track to track, in my head. This is the kind of thing one does on the 40 EAST. There were a few stumbling blocks but I got pretty much all of it.

If I'm motivated, I can keep time with a song pretty close when my XM kicks out on me.

And, no, I'm not a musician. I can't play the radio.
 
Johndicezx9 said:
I hope the song is “Surfin’ Bird”....

[YOUTUBE]9Gc4QTqslN4[/YOUTUBE]
Click to expand...

Is this relevant to a 5 - time/ beat /measure musical mumbo jumbo? Asked sincerely; I am familiar with Dave Brubeck's "Take Five" that is in 5/4 measure. Not that I would know the difference, but this sounds very different to me.
 
poach said:
Sorry brother, I’m getting 4/4 :dunno


You should absolutely pursue your musical curiosity. It’s the gift that keeps on giving.:)
Click to expand...

No apologies necessary, I am a student. I just don't know, except for what my fingers tapping away tell me. I am a student! (reminds me of Raskolnikov in Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment). In that context, it's not really a desirable thing. I'll keep on listening and learning.:ride
 
Beanzy said:
Another popular song in 5/4 time is the theme to Mission Impossible.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I have read this and am trying to digest this compared to Count on Me.

How should I learn to count in musical time?

If I could peel away the vocals and rhythm section I think I would be able to discern the number of guitars in this piece.
 
Last edited:
You can tell the song is in 4/4 time by watching the guitarists strum in that one video of Marty Balin singing while on acoustic guitar. They're all strumming four beats to each measure.

5/4 is not a usual rock-n-roll time signature. I think what might be making you to count five beats are the triplets in Marty's singing the lyrics. But the "(You Can) Count on Me" phrase consists of two quarter notes followed by two half notes and one whole note.
 
Last edited:
Beanzy said:
You can tell the song is in 4/4 time by watching the guitarists strum in that one video of Marty Balin singing while on acoustic guitar. They're all strumming four beats to each measure.

5/4 is not a usual rock-n-roll time signature. I think what might be making you to count five beats are the triplets in Marty's singing the lyrics. But the "(You Can) Count on Me" phrase consists of two quarter notes followed by two half notes and one whole note.
Click to expand...

Does two quarter notes followed by two half notes and one whole note = 2 x .25 = 1/2 plus 2 x .5 = 1 + 1. =2.5? Not the prettiest notation, and I may be mathematically way off the mark; I am trying to learn.
 
I agree with Poach. I'm hearing 4/4. Listen to the snare drum. When you count to 4, you'll hear the snare (or the cymbals in part of the song) hit on 2 and 4.

If you want to have fun confirming if you really do have rhythm, try clapping along to this vid. It's in 7/8. I have been working on clapping to it by feel, but so far, the only way I can make it all the way through on time is to count to 7. (he basically plays at the same tempo the entire video.) Things get really hard when he starts playing the half note triplets.

[youtube]Njy7pMVKJ8Q[/youtube]
 
A guitar comes in (the studio version) at about 45 seconds right after Grace sings backing vocals "you can count on me". What timing is that? I count 5 notes played on the guitar.

Again, I am ignorant musically and trying to understand. How do 5 notes (as discerned by my ear) equate to 4/4 time?
 
wannabe said:
I agree with Poach. I'm hearing 4/4. Listen to the snare drum. When you count to 4, you'll hear the snare (or the cymbals in part of the song) hit on 2 and 4.

If you want to have fun confirming if you really do have rhythm, try clapping along to this vid. It's in 7/8. I have been working on clapping to it by feel, but so far, the only way I can make it all the way through on time is to count to 7. (he basically plays at the same tempo the entire video.) Things get really hard when he starts playing the half note triplets.

[youtube]Njy7pMVKJ8Q[/youtube]
Click to expand...

Humbled? Mmm..... I need to learn to count. Lots o' studying to do here! Thank you for this.
 
900ss said:
A guitar comes in (the studio version) at about 45 seconds right after Grace sings backing vocals "you can count on me". What timing is that? I count 5 notes played on the guitar.

Again, I am ignorant musically and trying to understand. How do 5 notes (as discerned by my ear) equate to 4/4 time?
Click to expand...



Let's see if I can put it a simple way. 4/4 time means that there are 4 quarter notes per measure. If you want to figure out the song's time signature, don't listen to the guitar. Listen to the drums. As I said earlier, ignore the guitar, piano, and vocals, and listen to the drums.

If the guitar is strumming quarter notes and plays 5 of them, it means that he played the last chord on the 1 of the next measure.

Here's a drum cover. Count along to 4. Every time he hits the snare (not counting the fills) he is hitting on 2 and 4.

[youtube]qvYMR4iZepo[/youtube]
 
I've seen musicians listen to a song a couple of times on headphones then go on stage and nail it. For some this is like breathing then there is me I can hit the play button and that's about it.
 
lifetime drummer here.

More guitar players have crappy rhythm than any other musician. There I said it. Dont know what it is about that instrument that lends itself to getting a free pass on missing downbeats and making up their own parts. That's probably how the guitar part on this song was written, first as a mistake.

Just listen to the bass and drums and you will always be able to figure out the time signature.

The song is in 4/4. Simple rock beat with the emphasis on 2 and 4 count.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top