Not so typical young male on a 600? Your thoughts

[Spec-ECU]

Further, that bike still has the quick responses and vulnerable plastics that make larger spr0tbiles less than ideal newbie bikes. I'm with Mr. Nelson - lots of folks would do so much better to pick up a used dualsport.

Kurt, one of these days, you're going to have to ask me to tell you why I told a newb to buy NoGall's GSXR1000.

 

[flying_hun]

Kurt, one of these days, you're going to have to ask me to tell you why I told a newb to buy NoGall's GSXR1000.

Did Tom owe you money?

 

[Spec-ECU]

Did Tom owe you money?

No, but he didn't kickback either after I got him that sale!

 

[TheRiddler]

To the OP: Age doesn't matter. You're an inexperienced human being on a 100hp rocket machine.

While I don't fully subscribe to the "It's not if, but when" mentality, I do know a few people who have been riding a VERY long time with no crashes. I was one of them until a couple of years ago (unless you count track/racing and dirt). I had a silly little lowside on my supermoto in Mines, from which I popped right back up and rode away. Oh well, at least I made it 29 years before my first crash on a public street. Not too shabby.

I count those. Why wouldn't you? It's like crashing on a track/in the dirt is somehow exempt from the "crash count" because it's expected; because that's where you push the limits. But when you're a beginner, you're pushing your limits all the time.The first time you take a decreasing radius turn, the first time you run into a low-traction condition, the first time you emergency stop to avoid hitting traffic, the first time a deer runs in your way. That's all pushing the limit to someone who has never done it.

Crashing in the dirt/track gives you the experience needed to keep you from crashing on the street. You just happened to learn how to avoid crashing at a different location, and by crashing.

 

[Yakoo752]

I count those. Why wouldn't you? It's like crashing on a track/in the dirt is somehow exempt from the "crash count" because it's expected; because that's where you push the limits. But when you're a beginner, you're pushing your limits all the time.The first time you take a decreasing radius turn, the first time you run into a low-traction condition, the first time you emergency stop to avoid hitting traffic, the first time a deer runs in your way. That's all pushing the limit to someone who has never done it.

Crashing in the dirt/track gives you the experience needed to keep you from crashing on the street. You just happened to learn how to avoid crashing at a different location, and by crashing.

just because they both occur on 2 wheels does not make them similar.

 

[FLH03RIDER]

I wanna be a special snowflake..

YOU ARE A SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE!!!

 

[Daks]

I drive like a grandma, never got a ticket in my life, never in an accident. Still got a 250 and it was the best decision for me.
When you're on a motorcycle, sometimes it's not a matter of wanting to go fast. It just happens. I've found myself over 90 just cruising the HOV lane. In all honesty it was with the flow of traffic anyhow, but hell, I've never even gone 90 in a car.
You can tell yourself you're more mature and everything, but sooner or later you'll push that luck. 3-4 months after getting my bike I ran into the side of a lady's car who turned from a center lane right into my path. I should have seen it coming. But I was complacent. I was like, "Oh, I can just get right by this lady because I'm on a motorcycle" and next thing I know my wheel is sandwiched between the curb and her wheel.

You do seem to be on a bit of a high horse about your demographic. Get down and onto a bike that humbles you first, not makes your dick hard. That comes later, when you've matured as a rider. It doesn't matter how mature you are as a person. You're still a new rider.

 

[CAmudgeon]

Some great replies in this thread!

OP - you do sound more mature than many people your age. However, you are probably (just based on statistics) not more skillful at riding. Very few are naturally gifted, and even they have to work at it to become successful, and they still crash all the time plying their trade at the track.

Unfortunately that means while your maturity is a plus, your inexperience is likely the same achilles heel it is for us all. This makes a Supersport bike a more risky choice, especially early on in your riding career.

 

[Carlo]

To the OP: Age doesn't matter. You're an inexperienced human being on a 100hp rocket machine.



I count those. Why wouldn't you? It's like crashing on a track/in the dirt is somehow exempt from the "crash count" because it's expected; because that's where you push the limits. But when you're a beginner, you're pushing your limits all the time.The first time you take a decreasing radius turn, the first time you run into a low-traction condition, the first time you emergency stop to avoid hitting traffic, the first time a deer runs in your way. That's all pushing the limit to someone who has never done it.

Crashing in the dirt/track gives you the experience needed to keep you from crashing on the street. You just happened to learn how to avoid crashing at a different location, and by crashing.

One difference between crashing on the track and on the street is that the track is designed for crashing. Hay bales (or equivalent) to prevent a rider/bike from hitting hard objects, wide, flat run-off areas, grass covered infields and other things that make it an environment where it's about as safe as it can be to crash a motorcycle.
In addition, for the most part, you can expect the other track users to be fairly competent and reasonably predictable in their actions, unlike the road where you never know what other road users are going to do.

I've only done one trackday myself, and it was a revelation. I still tell people I've never had more fun on two wheels before. I felt I was able to let go and concentrate 100% of my attention and energy to riding the bike, rather than split it between riding and scanning the environment for threats.
This is a fundamental difference, and it's the reason why many of us distinguish between track crashes and street crashes.

 

[TheRiddler]

IMO, that the track is designed to be crashed on more safely than the street is not justification enough to say that they're so different as to be different categories. The consequence of the crash (hitting a hay bale versus a car) doesn't eliminate that it was a crash. Go to a Pacific Track Time day and when crashing comes up? DON'T! That's their mantra.

Whether you've crashed on the street, or the dirt, or the track, you've crashed.

I will give one exception: racing. You're not just pushing limits, you're trying to reach the limit...and still not crash. All while going faster than the person next to you who is doing the same thing. So maybe extremely quick A Pace track groups will qualify under this same exception.

 

[Yakoo752]

I will give one exception: racing. You're not just pushing limits, you're trying to reach the limit...and still not crash. All while going faster than the person next to you who is doing the same thing. So maybe extremely quick A Pace track groups will qualify under this same exception.

and you negate your statement with your "A Pace track groups"

If the one exception is racing then it should be absolute. If the crash occurs in a race then it doesn't count as a crash...

Now do we consider AFM racing? They are just "amateurs" so they likely aren't really "pushing manufacturer limits" so, maybe it's not really racing... So just AMA athletes are racers and their crashes don't count?


don't take this too seriously now

 

[clutchslip]

One of the issues that you're overlooking is that the 600cc sportbike, even the older ones, are not as forgiving as other motorcycles........

Good post. Keep it around for more newbie reference.

.....
yes, I know a few that have never crashed. They have all done trackdays and have ridden within their limit.

Devil's advocate, here: You can't know what your limits are until you have found your limit.

I hear this all the time, and I think it just tells part of the story. Ever have a grandma, or other relative that drives disastrously, but can honestly claim they never had an accident? I think most of us know someone like this. I know bikers like this, too.

Maturity does not compensate for lack of experience

Indeed. Which is why I like these threads when they are not filled with testosterone. There are mature and experienced people who provide some good feedback.

 

[TheRiddler]

and you negate your statement with your "A Pace track groups"

If the one exception is racing then it should be absolute. If the crash occurs in a race then it doesn't count as a crash...

Now do we consider AFM racing? They are just "amateurs" so they likely aren't really "pushing manufacturer limits" so, maybe it's not really racing... So just AMA athletes are racers and their crashes don't count?


don't take this too seriously now

I don't negate my own statement. That view ignores the objective of each activity. The objective of the A pace super fast guys, who tend to be racers, is to put in faster lap times (over-simplification obviously). The objective of the A-/B/C guys (IMO) should be to become safer, better riders. Faster laps happen to be a consequence.

If you crash on the track when you're trying to be a safer rider, I'd include that in the "crash count." If you crash on the track when you're trying to go faster and safety has become secondary or tertiary to lap times, I wouldn't count that. But if you're trying to improve your laptimes on Isle of 9, I would count that since it's in an inherently unsafe place.

It's not manufacturing limits where I draw the line. It's personal limits of speed, and then that's combined with where the crash occurs, and under what circumstances.

Funny how it's hard to narrow down an issue to one, single, simple criteria

/threadjack

 

[clutchslip]

If you crash on the track when you're trying to be a safer rider, I'd include that in the "crash count."

Why? See my post above. You can't know your limits or your equipment's limits until you get there. I am a HEAVY trail-braker. Some tucks at speed on the track have modified my technique on the street where I am going slower, but might have poorer road conditions. I don't see how you can put all these crashes into little boxes of good-or-bad.

 

[jumph4x]

 

[jimboFosho]

If you know that you have the self control not to crank your wrist and the know you have the patience to learn how to brake and handle the bike properly in unexpected situations...then there is no need to ask

 

[DataDan]

I had never had any interest in motorcycles or cars up until a year ago when i hung out with this guy that was the same age as me (20) who had a sportbike. I, being a curious person, questioned about the bike and the feeling as i never had the chance of riding any sort of motorized vehicle besides a car and a rented ATV at pismo. He mostly talked about the triple digit speeds he frequently rides the bike at and how he wheelies a ton after not even riding bikes for too long. It sounded interesting. He described the feeling as "having a rocket between your legs that can stop, turn, and speed up whenever you wanted".
...
I am, however, told many times that i am incredibly mature for my age. I take this as a verification in my decision to buy and operate a 600cc spr0tbile without an urge to speed everywhere and make unwise choices on the road. Every single i have made was not done without safety first in my mind: "should i pass this car to be ahead of traffic, or slow down to allow a larger bubble of space?"

You were attracted to motorcycles by tales of wheelies and triple-digit speed. So you have an image of yourself as a motorcyclist that includes that kind of riding, if not right away then soon enough.

But you're able to make people think you're incredibly mature for your age, and you've convinced yourself, too.

To me, that sounds like a recipe for rationalization. You want to go crazy on a motorcycle. But you're mature, so it's not so crazy after all, is it?

What is the preferred mindset?

This is what works for me:

• Crashing on the street is not acceptable. It can happen, but it shouldn't, and it shouldn't be lightly dismissed. On the street, the difference between "Oops!" and a life-altering (or -ending) incident is quite random. A few years ago on Highway 1 in Marin, a guy crossed the centerline in a curve, hit a car head on, flew over it, and landed uninjured in a soft patch of grass. That same year, six Bay Area riders died when they ran wide in curves and hit oncoming vehicles. (For info, I've crashed on the street three times in 30 years.)
  
  
• Not crashing is a product of attitude, perception, judgment, and skill. Some randomness is unavoidable, of course. I call those "falling dog" events. Long ago, when I was taking up riding, my sister sent me a clipping about a guy who was killed when a dog fell from an overpass and hit him. If it happens, it happens. Far more often, a good rider can identify and avoid potential threats before they develop into real danger. Moreover, if you think an incident is unpreventable, then--for you--it is, because you won't waste the time to cipher out the impossible. But if you think it can be prevented, you'll probably figure out a way.
  
  
• Learn from your mistakes. Every crash, every close call, every unpleasant surprise is an opportunity to catalog another threatening situation and identify countermeasures, so you can avoid it in the future. If your only reaction is to flip off the offending motorist, the chances are good that it will happen again--and you may not ride away next time. To learn from mistakes, you must accept the fact that you make them--that is, you need some humility. You must also accept that...
  
  
• Life as a motorcyclist isn't fair. Drivers screw up and roads can be crappy, but it's up to you to adapt. You may wish that American drivers were as disciplined as those in <insert your favorite European country here>. Or that driver training were more like pilot training. Or that Caltrans would send someone out to sweep the apexes every morning. Or that there were 10 times more cops to enforce the cell phone law (but not the speed limit) and that violations were punishable by painful sexual mutilation. But none of that is going to happen in your lifetime. So if you want to enjoy a long, safe motorcycling career, you must accept full responsibility for your own well being.

 

[EjGlows]

If you are in little league and think you can hit a 90 mph fastball and THINK you have the muscle memory to do it, then by all means...step up to bat. *many allegories can be taken from that*

Maturity is bullshit. That means nothing. Muscle memory to give proper inputs, read road conditions, and react to external influence is something that comes with practice and time.

If you think you can then do it. Don't fool yourself into thinking you are the .0000001% that has the talent to pick up something without 10,000 hours of practice.

Oh, wait...you are a unique snowflake. Here's what you want to hear, "Sugar pie, you are ready."

 

[littlebeast]

personally, i think maturity is a double edged sword. it can go a long way toward helping you lay a foundation. but it can also lull you into a false sense of security. things tend to bite you the hardest when you think you have them figured out. and with regard to riding, that's not a single point in time.

 

[SlideSF]

Hey OP: Come back in 50,000 miles and tell us how well you did. Personally I hope you never have a get off, or even a close call. But still, talking about how much maturer you are than other riders, and how much better you are suited to a 600 super sport is like telling us how well you are going to do in Vegas cuz you got a system and would never be ruled by emotions. All I can say is: Show us the money, honey.

Predictions about how well you will ride due to your maturity level are great and all; but like most talk, it's not worth a damn unless it's backed up by results.