Police Agency exams never fail to surprise me.

[Ace of Hearts]

Had a report writing test today. Watched a video two times through and was given an hour to write a report. This is the closest thing to an academy exam I've had so far. There was a Face Sheet and everything.

Then several hours later I underwent an oral board of sorts. It was only 15 minutes long.

There were maybe 20 of us there vying for 6 unpaid reserve positions. So that's some pretty good odds as they go. That's one in four. So I think they will be lucky to get those filled given all the other hoops we have to jump through.

 

[Outta Control]

Good luck again ACE.

 

[bojangle]

Had a report writing test today. Watched a video two times through and was given an hour to write a report. This is the closest thing to an academy exam I've had so far. There was a Face Sheet and everything.

Then several hours later I underwent an oral board of sorts. It was only 15 minutes long.

There were maybe 20 of us there vying for 6 unpaid reserve positions. So that's some pretty good odds as they go. That's one in four. So I think they will be lucky to get those filled given all the other hoops we have to jump through.

Hey, aren't you a finance guy? Math and all. Wouldn't that be 1 in 3.333333333333? But, of course, that is assuming that all 6 positions are filled from those 20 applicants. I would say there is a very good chance that they won't be able to fill all the positions with only 20 applicants. Good luck.

 

[Ace of Hearts]

Yea, I was mathematically lazy

One of the first things said by an interviewer (to lighten the mood) was he just retired and had some money he wanted to invest. He was totally joking and didn’t know who he was talking too. I asked if he read my resume, and he said no. So it was a nice intro to my previous (technically still current) background.

Yea, knowing what I know now about these processes I was pleased with only 20 applicants. Those are the ones they are going to draw from. That was it. That was the test. They will have another round of testing for the lower Level II/III in May.

Their deal is there are no identifying badges or patches for reserves. No one can tell, not even the PD staff will know unless I disclose it.

They pay nothing, but pay all the association dues and disability insurance.

FTO is one shift a week for 4 months.

Once on my own I can work any day, any shift I want. They only ask I show up at briefing and let the Sgt, and everyone else on duty I will be out and about. Reserves never cover shifts for regular officers (union thing). So I would be in addition to a shift, not a part of the regular staff.

That’s pretty cool. I wonder if they would let me follow through on any white collar crimes that might come my way.

In retrospect I am second guessing my answers to some of the oral questions they gave me. Mainly on the use of force thing. I only said to effect an arrest or prevent an escape. I left out protect life and property. I was in a rush. They only gave us 15 minutes.

Then there was another question about someone driving like crazy and was DUI, but turned out to be the daughter of my regular employer (being I’m reserve). What would I do. I wasn’t prepared for that one. I’m prepared to answer the one if I pull over the chief of police and he’s DUI, but not that one. So I said I would hook her up. I would make sure there was another officer watching my conduct. I would NOT take it to the level of a Sgt. But I would make sure my conflict of interest is covered, and I would hook her up.

To me it’s just another DUI. If you blow a light, cross over the lanes and are DUI there’s no room to turn the cheek.

To me, if I conduct myself any differently, then my being a reservist would lower the service the community gets from the PD. Otherwise, the Reserve corps is just a bunch more random people that know the reserve officers who could give them brakes.

I didn't even sign any sort of confidential agreement for the testing/interview so I'm discussing more here than I usually would.

 

[masameet]

Do you guys ever get asked about being in at least one brawl?

Last night on the radio the ex-police chief of Berkeley was on. He said from his experience any guy or gal who wanted to be a cop and had never been in a physical fight most likely wouldn't like going at it with suspects, if it came to that. He said candidates who admitted to at least one knock-down, wrestling in the dirt fight with somebody tend to make good cops.

He also stressed honesty. Any cop who showed he couldn't be true to his word was fired. He fired quite a few during his tenure as chief.

The two things he said really marked a good cop though was communication skills and empathy. Esp. being able to write.

 

[Ace of Hearts]

I've only been in one fight outside of controlled sparing.

The only time fighting is asked is in the background package.

I was asked a situational question a while back at how I would respond to a bar fight.

 

[bojangle]

Their deal is there are no identifying badges or patches for reserves. No one can tell, not even the PD staff will know unless I disclose it.

Then there was another question about someone driving like crazy and was DUI, but turned out to be the daughter of my regular employer (being I’m reserve). What would I do. I wasn’t prepared for that one. I’m prepared to answer the one if I pull over the chief of police and he’s DUI, but not that one. So I said I would hook her up. I would make sure there was another officer watching my conduct. I would NOT take it to the level of a Sgt. But I would make sure my conflict of interest is covered, and I would hook her up.

I don't understand what you mean about no badges or patches for reserves. Don't they wear uniforms? Get trained by department FTOs? Drive marked cars? The PD staff can't tell what? Am I missing something?

Sooooo, do you arrest the chief or not?

 

[Ace of Hearts]

I meant the badges and patches are the same, they don't say reserve.

No matter, I didn't pass the report writing exam. F#cking-A. Whatever, the pay was pretty shitty Like I said, Bay Area agenices like my report writing, and the academy I went to was influenced by that region.

As for the chief, I was given a special answer for that scenairo at the academy (by my 30 year career crusty old TO), and if I give it here, all the civilians are going to go ape.

I'm basically done applying now. Even if any of the applications I have outstanding currently worked out and hired me, I'm still looking at 6 monts on the quick end.

Back to reality and focusing on finance jobs.

Right now, I'm parting out salvaged cars out of my garage for additional cash.

 

[NVR FNSH]

I meant the badges and patches are the same, they don't say reserve.

No matter, I didn't pass the report writing exam. F#cking-A. Whatever, the pay was pretty shitty Like I said, Bay Area agenices like my report writing, and the academy I went to was influenced by that region.

As for the chief, I was given a special answer for that scenairo at the academy (by my 30 year career crusty old TO), and if I give it here, all the civilians are going to go ape.

I'm basically done applying now. Even if any of the applications I have outstanding currently worked out and hired me, I'm still looking at 6 monts on the quick end.

Back to reality and focusing on finance jobs.

Right now, I'm parting out salvaged cars out of my garage for additional cash.

WTF? Who the hell was grading the reports?

Brian

 

[Kornholio]

I meant the badges and patches are the same, they don't say reserve.

No matter, I didn't pass the report writing exam. F#cking-A. Whatever, the pay was pretty shitty Like I said, Bay Area agenices like my report writing, and the academy I went to was influenced by that region.

As for the chief, I was given a special answer for that scenairo at the academy (by my 30 year career crusty old TO), and if I give it here, all the civilians are going to go ape.

I'm basically done applying now. Even if any of the applications I have outstanding currently worked out and hired me, I'm still looking at 6 monts on the quick end.

Back to reality and focusing on finance jobs.

Right now, I'm parting out salvaged cars out of my garage for additional cash.

I feel your pain. Well sort of. I didn't get hired by anyone when I was in my "rush" of applying. What pissed me off the most was the fact they kept hiring 21 year-olds that lived with their parents just because they had more college than I did. I was 25 with documented leadership experience, combat experience, weapons experience with a crystal clean background and yet I still lost out because I didn't have college. The irony is that nearly every CJ course I've taken has it written in their textbook that college does not make a better officer. Yet most bay area departments are so wrapped up in it they keep hiring kid officers with zero job experience and then they're surprised that he/she never makes it through FTO or even the academy. :|

Eventually I did exactly what you're doing now. I stopped listening to all the people saying, "OMG! There's so may open peace officer positions in the state of California right now because all the baby-boomers are retiring! You should totally go apply right now! You'll get picked right up!" (It's a crock of shit) and started being realistic and finding a secure job that can hold me down until I can complete that college degree. :|

 

[Ace of Hearts]

Well......... the Reserve Coordinating officer and a Sgt. were reviewing the reports. So I don't know what I could have screwed up. It was an auto burg. report. I'm guessing I didn't put key information in the right place, or put it in a context they didn't like.

The video went in detail about the car, color, plate, model, etc... of the car that was broken into. I put that all in a section I called "additional information", because we didn’t get face sheets that covered auto stuff. Then there was only this tiny section for the suspect information, and I crammed everything into those boxes when maybe I should have put it down in the narrative as well. I was taught not to repeat myself in the narrative if the information is in the face sheet. I think that’s what might have nixed me.

The upside is Friday I have an interview for a position in San Jose that pays $70K~ The job specs are exactly a job I left 2 years ago. The double upside is there is an obscure software package they use for complicated analysis and I have detailed experience with that particular software and the analysis they need.

If I get this job I will be in the bay area, and I can then nix all my Nor-CA LEO applications. I’ll focus on reserve related positions, but at my leisure.

The bottom line is there is going to be a reckoning in the LE industry. Agencies are down 10-20% of staffing, and they are not filling the positions. Yes, money is hindering the hiring, but retirements will creep up. Will that help me get hired? I don’t think so, but there will be a reckoning.

What’s going to happen is eventually, they are not going to be able to pull from retired officers or reservists to fill the ranks. They will have exhausted that pool of resources. I don’t know how this is going to change the process by which most hire, but all the best agencies are going to get the laterals, and all the other agencies are going to get what’s left over.

The biggest complication is that the LE industry is going to have trapped itself. The system allows almost anyone to apply, but excludes the vast majority from being hired. In fact, every single BG investigator can find something to justify not hiring anyone. Every day that passes there are less and less officers and people qualified relative to the positions that need to be filled.

If I land this new financial analyst position, and it turns out to be a place I can live with without being a part of an organization that only wants analysis for the sake of it, and not ignore sound business decisions then I might just stay right there, and play cops and robbers on the weekend as a reservist.

Then I can have the best of both worlds.

Here’s the biggest difference between my world and the LEO world.

Pretty much anyone can apply to a LEO position. My competition into the system is vast. I question whether my application will even be read some times. When I applied to this financial position I’m only competing against people who happen to have a Master’s degree in finance or accounting (and/or a CPA or the like). I absolutely knew I was going to get an interview, and I did. But if I don’t get this, then I’m screwed.

Even if I do get this, it was the industry I was trying to run away from. I feel traped. I suppose a lot of people feel that was as well.

 

[Slow600rr]

The biggest complication is that the LE industry is going to have trapped itself. The system allows almost anyone to apply, but excludes the vast majority from being hired. In fact, every single BG investigator can find something to justify not hiring anyone. Every day that passes there are less and less officers and people qualified relative to the positions that need to be filled.

I don't really agree. I had about 20 college credits before going to the academy, and ZERO jobs that were related to LE. I sold cell phones from high school until I was about 24, then worked for an electrical company for about 6 months before going to the academy.

You just need to find the right department, and present yourself in a way that they want you to. The tricky part is figuring out what they want before you apply.

 

[Iszlandsnow]

Yap Yap Yap. When I got hired all of my tests were fill in the dots.

 

[1085One]

I feel your pain. Well sort of. I didn't get hired by anyone when I was in my "rush" of applying. What pissed me off the most was the fact they kept hiring 21 year-olds that lived with their parents just because they had more college than I did. I was 25 with documented leadership experience, combat experience, weapons experience with a crystal clean background and yet I still lost out because I didn't have college. The irony is that nearly every CJ course I've taken has it written in their textbook that college does not make a better officer. Yet most bay area departments are so wrapped up in it they keep hiring kid officers with zero job experience and then they're surprised that he/she never makes it through FTO or even the academy. :|

Eventually I did exactly what you're doing now. I stopped listening to all the people saying, "OMG! There's so may open peace officer positions in the state of California right now because all the baby-boomers are retiring! You should totally go apply right now! You'll get picked right up!" (It's a crock of shit) and started being realistic and finding a secure job that can hold me down until I can complete that college degree. :|

Not 100% true. When I got hired I only had an AA and a lot less life experience than all of the applicants. Some of the applicants I talked to had BAs and one had a masters.

Maybe it wasn't your lack of college experience that didn't get you hired. You might not have fit what a certain department is looking for. A department has the right to be picky with all the money,time and, effort that it invests in a person who they are going to put through the academy.

Bottom line a college degree isn't going to make or break your career. I know plenty of people who did not have a college degree when they got hired.

 

[Ace of Hearts]

I don't really agree. I had about 20 college credits before going to the academy, and ZERO jobs that were related to LE. I sold cell phones from high school until I was about 24, then worked for an electrical company for about 6 months before going to the academy.

You just need to find the right department, and present yourself in a way that they want you to. The tricky part is figuring out what they want before you apply.

Yea. I'm contemplating getting copies of police reports.

Does anyone have any ideas how to get them without having a report number or anything?

I just want random police reports from various agencies covering petty theft, robbery, home and auto burglary, and auto theft. Those seem to be commonly tested topics.

I really want to see how great and wonderful these reports are, and how they flow logically. I’ve not been wowed by the ones I’ve seen being written up.

 

[bojangle]

Yea. I'm contemplating getting copies of police reports.

Does anyone have any ideas how to get them without having a report number or anything?

I just want random police reports from various agencies covering petty theft, robbery, home and auto burglary, and auto theft. Those seem to be commonly tested topics.

I really want to see how great and wonderful these reports are, and how they flow logically. I’ve not been wowed by the ones I’ve seen being written up.

Saw crook, arrested same. Any questions?

Some advice: Write in first person and chronological order. Spelling and grammar count. Make sure all of the elements of all of the crimes are covered. If the victim/witness gave you descriptions of the suspects/vehicles, then it is part of their statement and should be included in the narrative as well as any face sheet boxes. Summarize what you did. Was there a point of entry/exit for the burglary? Did you collect evidence? Dust for prints? Take photos? Did you book evidence? If so, what times? (chain of custody) Get detailed descriptions of weapons used in a robbery. Does the victim know the suspect? Can they identify them if they saw them again? Are there video surveillance cameras in the area? Values and descriptions of stolen property should be documented.

The bottom line is that you have to be able to write a report that tells a clear story to the reader about what happened as if they were there. It helps to be able to anticipate some of those questions and document a lack of evidence. For example, if the crime occurred in a retail center, it is likely that the supervisor approving the report, or the DA later, will want to know if there was any video surveillance footage of the crime. Documenting a lack of such evidence (if that is the case) can save you from getting reports kicked back.

Any other specific questions I can answer?

 

[Kornholio]

Not 100% true. When I got hired I only had an AA and a lot less life experience than all of the applicants. Some of the applicants I talked to had BAs and one had a masters.

Maybe it wasn't your lack of college experience that didn't get you hired. You might not have fit what a certain department is looking for. A department has the right to be picky with all the money,time and, effort that it invests in a person who they are going to put through the academy.

Bottom line a college degree isn't going to make or break your career. I know plenty of people who did not have a college degree when they got hired.

An AA is a lot more than I've got at the moment. :|

 

[windex]

+1 on bojangle's last post, just add past tends.

I just did one that gave me a headache. Conacted RP, cleared property, in-field, then went and collected evidence. It was a supp, but covered what I did and what order.

 

[NVR FNSH]

I really want to see how great and wonderful these reports are, and how they flow logically. I’ve not been wowed by the ones I’ve seen being written up.

Reports will run the full gamut from "Witnessed burglary, arrested same" to a full on novel that rivals a John Grisham book - depends on the officer and the supervisor. I have a degree in mechanical engineering and I've read some reports that even I thought were over the top.

One of the biggest frustrations for me during FTO was having to change my writing style to suit each of my Training Officers perception of what was the 'proper' way to write. I have written reports/proposals for multi-million dollar programs - to have a guy with a AA 'correct' my reports took some getting used to. I have no problem with corrections if I left out pertinent info/elements of the crime.

Brian

 

[Ace of Hearts]

Thanks guys. Nothing's being said here that isn't what I was taught in the academy. I'll just trek on. I have an interview next week for a Reserve position in another city. This one PAYS!!!!!!!!! Not much, but you can't imagine the mental impact it has on me that they at least make an effort.

Right now the ideal situation is I land the Finance job at the salary I left finance at, and land the reserve position in this economy. Then I can wait it out, and see which of the two paths I truely am best fit for.