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Proper Body positioning when cornering

That's not "weighting" the outside peg. Point is, you can't support yourself off the outside peg when you're hanging off to the inside, when people talk about this they can't ignore the knee and the tank - this is where the support is really coming from.

We can split hairs about what weighting means, but if you bear more pressure on one peg than the other and you're not using another surface for opposition, you've placed more weight on that peg.

In any case, it has no effect on the bike unless the bike moves independently of the rider.
 
In any case, it has no effect on the bike unless the bike moves independently of the rider.

What about when you are standing the bike up as you exit? In this case, the distance between you and the bike actually increasing (ie you are staying as low and off the bike as much as you can), as you stand it up to get back on the gas. I imagine im furthest away from the bike at corner exit than any other time. So the bike and body are sorta moving independently at this time

But yeah, for me, it wasn't so much about handling dynamics as it was about premature fatigue and properly anchoring my lower body such that I can stay loose on the controls
 
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We can split hairs about what weighting means, but if you bear more pressure on one peg than the other and you're not using another surface for opposition, you've placed more weight on that peg.

What you're actually doing when you "weight" the outside peg is supporting yourself with your outside knee. This isn't splitting hairs, it's an important concept to grasp, and you can support yourself this way even if you don't leverage your leg and press your foot against the outside peg - leaning off to the inside, it's impossible to put your weight on the outside peg. In contrast, you can support yourself by weighting the inside peg regardless of what your knees are doing. This has some advantages and disadvantages.
 
I cant believe how fast this idiot is riding with just a short sleeve polo shirt on and jeans:wtf. Both those jackasses blew the DY multiple times also.

Way too fast with absolutely NO gear.

my thoughts exactly. also way to pass on blind corners. head to head with a car; guess who wins?
 
In contrast, you can support yourself by weighting the inside peg regardless of what your knees are doing. This has some advantages and disadvantages.

This seems like a great way to wear yourself out and destroy your knees, however...
 
lemme rephrase that...

you can drag hard parts of your bike...

not recommended...


when you get close to dragging parts if you insist on going faster yet you must then lean off the bike to lower the weight ECT

but if should be pleanty fast not leaning off
 
What you're actually doing when you "weight" the outside peg is supporting yourself with your outside knee. This isn't splitting hairs, it's an important concept to grasp, and you can support yourself this way even if you don't leverage your leg and press your foot against the outside peg - leaning off to the inside, it's impossible to put your weight on the outside peg. In contrast, you can support yourself by weighting the inside peg regardless of what your knees are doing. This has some advantages and disadvantages.

Jeff, we don't disagree about the body part that is keeping us from falling off the inside of the bike.

I do disagree with the idea that you can't vary the amount of weight that the outside peg bears, if that's what you're saying. By the way, I'm not saying that you are moving the weight, as you would have to relocate your center of mass to do that.

Imagine that you're sitting on a stool with both feet on the ground, but nearly all of your weight on the seat. Your butt is nearly half off the right side of the stool and your torso is leaning a little to the right. Your feet are offset a little to the left of your body's center of mass.

Now, you stand up just enough to unweight the seat. I would say you've placed your weight on both feet; the right and the left, even though the right foot is carrying the lion's share. What you have not done is alter your center of mess, other than raise it the tiny bit necessary to lift your butt off the stool.

It's not a whole lot different on the bike. If you were to say the rider cannot place all of his weight on his outside foot when hanging off, I'd agree with you. To say he cannot place any weight there is to say he cannot vary the amount of weight that foot carries. That's just not the case. If you can put pressure on the peg and you're not doing so in opposition to some other surface on the bike, you're doing it in opposition to gravity. If that's the case, the peg is bearing some of your weight.

I could just let this go, but there is something that matters here. As I've said, the point of attachment to the bike doesn't really matter if the bike and rider move as a unit. But they aren't bolted together. The human will flop around a bit on the bike as the bike gets jounced by bumps.

Imagine a rider actively weighting the right peg while leaned over in a right hand turn. If the bike hits a bump, the rider's weight will transmit a jounce into the peg that tends to roll the bike farther to the right. If there's ample traction, the bike won't move much, if at all. If he's right on the limit, that torque on the peg can momentarily add a little more lateral force to the tires. Slides can and do happen this way.

Conversely, if the rider is actively trying to weight the outside peg, he will largely neutralize this torquing effect. He'll in reality never get the majority of his weight onto the outside peg, but the effort he bears on the outer peg will cause some of his mass to act on a moment on the opposite side of the bike's roll axis and reduce the tendency of the bike to slide or to increase lean angle while sliding.

Having said all that, do we still disagree on something?
 
Or you can learn to hang off at lower speeds and increase your traction patch and get get on the gas harder/earlier. Then as you get faster and faster, increase your lean angle while still hanging off the bike.

Getting off the bike isnt just for corner speed, it plays a big role in corner exit as well.
 
whats a perfect body position or the right way to hang off the bike? pic? video?
 
Or you can learn to hang off at lower speeds and increase your traction patch and get get on the gas harder/earlier. Then as you get faster and faster, increase your lean angle while still hanging off the bike.

Getting off the bike isnt just for corner speed, it plays a big role in corner exit as well.

The contact patch of the tire gets larger the further you lean it over. Straightening the bike out actually reduces your contact patch. Now, if you reduce your effective lean angle, you also reduce your cornering load and free up traction for acceleration. But hanging off doesn't necessarily reduce the effective lean angle -- in fact, in many cases it can increase it.

Likewise, a large portion of your traction comes from camber thrust, which is reduced as you straighten the bike up.

Don't get me wrong -- there are a lot of good reasons to hang off, (using the suspension more effectively, making better use of the tires, biasing the balance of the bike for easier turn in... etc. etc. etc.) But I believe it's important to know what it does and does not do, and to realize that it's not a magic bullet.
 
Apologies for mis-speaking. It may not increase the contact patch, but it does increase the amount of available traction. You can use more gas, the more upright the bike is. Which is why racers will do everything they can to stand the bike up as fast and as early as they can

Too much gas while too leaned over, you can spin up the rear and either wash out (if you are lucky) or high side (unlucky)

I learned this lesson the hard way, but got lucky I didn't high side
 
Apologies for mis-speaking. It may not increase the contact patch, but it does increase the amount of available traction. You can use more gas, the more upright the bike is. Which is why racers will do everything they can to stand the bike up as fast and as early as they can

Too much gas while too leaned over, you can spin up the rear and either wash out (if you are lucky) or high side (unlucky)

I learned this lesson the hard way, but got lucky I didn't high side

Yeah, I've had a few oh-shit moments like that myself. The worst was when the rear tire hit a patch of leaves on otherwise clear pavement. Instant high-side recipe -- the leaves sent the tire swinging, and it whipped back into place the moment it hit fresh pavement. It's a good thing I was on a dirt bike. :facepalm

Another involved a *bad* oil leak on highway 9.

One bad rear end slide directly involved hanging off. I was on a fresh pair of tires, and riding at a fairly easy pace while they warmed up. I got the brilliant idea of hanging off while keeping the bike nearly vertical and had the rear end go wide. I was fortunate to keep it together, and never repeated that experiment.

Personally, I have reasons to doubt that hanging off frees up traction nearly as effectively as straightening my line... Based on my understanding of cornering theory, hanging off may actually reduce available traction in some situations, such as the one I described above.

But, this is all fringe theory. The most important point, and the one that you're making well, is that a rider has to reduce his cornering load on the tires before he can add a lot of throttle. I've never slid the tire this way, but I recall seeing it happen often enough.
 
Personally, I have reasons to doubt that hanging off frees up traction nearly as effectively as straightening my line... Based on my understanding of cornering theory, hanging off may actually reduce available traction in some situations, such as the one I described above.

There are so many variables that it may be true in some cases and not in others. One thing that is absolutely true: When the bike is closer to vertical, if it does slide it will take longer to hit the ground. The chances of saving a slide get better for that reason alone.
 
The contact patch of the tire gets larger the further you lean it over. Straightening the bike out actually reduces your contact patch.
Back the truck up....

Some tires do the exact opposite, it depends on the tire.
 
Personally, I have reasons to doubt that hanging off frees up traction nearly as effectively as straightening my line... Based on my understanding of cornering theory, hanging off may actually reduce available traction in some situations, such as the one I described above.

But, this is all fringe theory. The most important point, and the one that you're making well, is that a rider has to reduce his cornering load on the tires before he can add a lot of throttle. I've never slid the tire this way, but I recall seeing it happen often enough.

As fun as cornering is, the main goal is to keep the bike as upright as possible (on the track or on the street, IMO), as much as possible. The more upright the bike is, the more traction you typically have. How you use this traction is dependent on your setting
 
Back the truck up....

Some tires do the exact opposite, it depends on the tire.

Fair enough. In your experience, would it be fair to say that my original statement is true of the most modern sport tires when inflated to their proper pressures?
 
There are so many variables that it may be true in some cases and not in others. One thing that is absolutely true: When the bike is closer to vertical, if it does slide it will take longer to hit the ground. The chances of saving a slide get better for that reason alone.

Wouldn't my body position also have a major impact my ability to save a slide?
 
As fun as cornering is, the main goal is to keep the bike as upright as possible (on the track or on the street, IMO), as much as possible. The more upright the bike is, the more traction you typically have. How you use this traction is dependent on your setting

What is your approach to keeping the bike upright? What is your focus?
 
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