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Prosecuting Navy Seals

Climber said:
They'll know to put someone like that down like you would a rabid dog, next time. This could lead to a case where we won't be getting too many douche's like this taken into custody very often in the future, and I'm ok with that.
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I would rather our guys (even regular grunts) maintain their honor. It's what they are taught and what makes them special and worthy of our praise.
 
Human Ills said:
We are supposed to be above torture. Waterboarding is torture.
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I simply stated that our allies, to whom we hand over captured suspects, don't necessarily have the same sensibilities and that does not bother our fearless leaders...you know, the same ones that want to prosecute these SEALS.

And you do know that SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training, right?

So yes, we do waterboard...but only OUR guys! :laughing
 
Human Ills said:
Are Blackwater ops anything more than mere mercs?
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You mean civilians paid to provide security? Sure, but our military is paid as well (not paid enough I'm sure). But in my mind a mercenary is simply there for the money, and doesn't care who he's working for. I'd imagine most contractors are also there because they want to represent America in the fight.
 
I don't know why everyone is all surprised. We pay our troops crap, send them into stupid wars lacking necessary equipment, cheat them out of care when they do get injured...well why not prosecute them for committing acts of violence in a war, too? Why stop the f***ing over halfway?
 
strega said:
You mean civilians paid to provide security? Sure, but our military is paid as well (not paid enough I'm sure). But in my mind a mercenary is simply there for the money, and doesn't care who he's working for. I'd imagine most contractors are also there because they want to represent America in the fight.
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Killing people based on some fuzzy notion of nationalism is cool, but killing them because you're making a living at it is not. Yay for murderous ideologies.
 
he punched the guy in the stomach and gave him a bloody lip... I hardly call that committing acts of violence in a war...

crappy Fox News said:
McCabe is accused of punching Abed in the stomach and giving him a bloody lip during the arrest.
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Navy Times said:
McCabe is charged with one count each of assault of the detainee, dereliction of duty and making a false official statement, Silkman said. Officials accuse McCabe of “willfully failing to safeguard a detainee,” Silkman said.

Keefe is charge with one count each of dereliction of duty and false official statement; Huertas is accused of dereliction of duty, false official statement and impeding an investigation, she said.

“They are all together and they all maintain that they are innocent of these charges,” said Puckett, a retired Marine Corps lieutenant colonel and judge advocate.

The SEALs were on the tail-end of their deployment to Iraq when the alleged incident happened, he said.

Puckett offered no details about the alleged incident, but said that “in a combat environment, the handling of a detainee … these things happen all the time and can easily be justified as maintaining [control of] a detainee.”
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n10sive said:
I would rather our guys (even regular grunts) maintain their honor. It's what they are taught and what makes them special and worthy of our praise.
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Weird how it's ok to take out a scumbag, and anyone around him, innocent or guilty, with a Predator missile, but "roughing up" that same scumbag will get you Court Marshaled!
 
juha_teuvonnen said:
If I had reasonable intel to believe that the guy was responsible for killing one of ours, I'd waste the motherfucker in a new york minute, and so would any of the guys in my unit. This whole trial is a PR circus.
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"reasonable intel" are the key words here.
 
strega said:
You mean civilians paid to provide security?
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When in a war zone, it is the same thing as a mercenary.

strega said:
But in my mind a mercenary is simply there for the money, and doesn't care who he's working for. I'd imagine most contractors are also there because they want to represent America in the fight.
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I am sure most mercenaries have personal beliefs.

strega said:
I'd imagine most contractors are also there because they want to represent America in the fight.
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They are their to make money man. Take away the money, and they wouldn't be representing anybody.

:thumbup
 
GAJ said:
I simply stated that our allies, to whom we hand over captured suspects, don't necessarily have the same sensibilities and that does not bother our fearless leaders...you know, the same ones that want to prosecute these SEALS.

And you do know that SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training, right?

So yes, we do waterboard...but only OUR guys! :laughing
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I am aware of that training. And it makes sense considering many of our enemies engage in the practice, ostensibly, doesn't mean we should also engage in the practice. IMO.

Last I checked, "just following orders" doesn't fly.
 
Drop the charges. Or be prepared to deal with the fact that Navy Seals will then be less inclined to take prisoners.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. "
 
Yakoo752 said:
nope

“in a combat environment, the handling of a detainee … these things happen all the time and can easily be justified as maintaining [control of] a detainee.”
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You can't tell me that waterboarding is easily justified as a necessary device for maintaining control of a detainee.

This is really what you are about?
 
Yakoo752 said:
he punched the guy in the stomach and gave him a bloody lip... I hardly call that committing acts of violence in a war...
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I'll admit upfront that I know nothing of this case other than what I have read in this thread, but I wonder if the real issue here isn't the "torture," but rather that everybody circled the wagons and lied to protect each other -- that's sure how it looks from what I have read. Probably one of those things where the one guy might have received a reprimand or something, but in lying to protect someone, the guys turned nothing into something.
 
Yakoo752 said:
Navy Seals do not have a traditional chain of command.
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What I meant was some asshole in the dept of the navy much higher up than them did it.

Also, I thought most contractors were prior service.
 
And fawn after reading what you wrote a few times I understand the point you were getting across

Human Ills said:
You can't tell me that waterboarding is easily justified as a necessary device for maintaining control of a detainee.

This is really what you are about?
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:rolleyes

waterboarding does not equal maintaining control of a detainee...

p518.php


How many days did you spend in the sandbox? How many detainees did you deal with? Thought so...

macadamizer.... maybe the terrorist is lying? I don't know what went down in the field and I highly doubt that these guys beat the shit out of their prisoner. They were probably issued a direct order to get this guy and bring him back alive, and they did.

Here's possibly how the scenario played out...
In evacuating the prisoner while still behind enemy lines trying to evade capture and LIVE...

Navy Seal:
Hey prisoner... STFU no talking
Prisoner
but... wah wah wah
Navy Seal:
punch stomach punch to mouth... I said STFU
prisoner
:shhh

I don't know
 
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regarding the use of 'mercs' in Iraq. There are military objectives, "Take that town" and then there are political/administrative objectives, "give politician A a ride to the airport, train the police, feed the troops". AFIK, Mercs have never been outsourced to perform Military objectives. With today's modern volunteer Army, it is very cost effective to use civilians in performing those non-military tasks. Could you imagine some soldiers face that after a day in the shit being told he has to go drive Route Irish to pick up some USO tour and risk his life over that?!

I think some of you have no clue as to what happens over there, and what the civilian contractors have to go through. The media image of gun toting wanna be soldiers, shooting up everything in sight like an old west movie is pretty much a load of :bs Most of them I have known are pretty decent folks that are there to do the jobs that are necessary, and not having to use a real soldier to do. They are not Legionnaires. They are also not paid as handsomely as some of you think they are. Granted that in the beginning of the war, their salaries were made up just to get qualified folks there. Now...not so much. My friend is making $80k there and he has been hit by 3 IEDS so far. Is that a lot of money for that?
 
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