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Replace Pads/ Rotors AND Calipers on a brake job...WTF?

Holeshot said:
I'm tempted to take it in as a guy and see what they say...but they'll recognize the car for sure. It's a smallish town, not common car. None the less, it's such bullshit it just grates on me!



More like an honest to goodness ass fucking! But I kinda get that approach...
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I'd suggest You find an attorney that knows brakes, and just take LS to court.

If You go into LS, You will get a song and dance routine.

Ya actually think they are intimidated by guys?
 
Here's another good one. Guy pulls into the shop and wants me to look at his lift kit. He snapped his center steering link and welded it back together. Went to LS and they wanted him to buy a whole new lift kit and have them Install it. They said it was the only way they would fix it. I ordered him a new center link and got it sent next day. Cost him $200 out the door.
 
Antarius said:
It is les Schwabs policy to rebuild or replace calipers on a brake job. I don't know why, but it is.
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In situations like this - when dealing with idiots- and you hear the word "POLICY" you can pretty much stop listening, because there will be no rational thinking admitted to on their part after that.
 
Antarius said:
It is les Schwabs policy to rebuild or replace calipers on a brake job. I don't know why, but it is.
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I know: $$$$$!

It's the creeping expansion of billable items and labor. At many shops, any amount of wear on the rotors requires rotor replacement along with the pads - so that replacement is usually a given. Replacing calipers is just the next item to be added.

Next year Les Schwab's policy will be to replace all wheel bearings, also. And probably change out the air in the tires, at $3/tire labor rate.

Lex
 
Lex Talionis said:
Next year Les Schwab's policy will be to replace all wheel bearings, also. And probably change out the air in the tires, at $3/tire labor rate.

Lex
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A guy, Dan, from work was helping another dude who was stuck in the sand at the beach. Dan tells him "I'm going to let some air out of your tires so you will get more traction then we'll pump them back up" the guy gets a concerned look on his face and says "But they're filled with nitrogen"

He didn't think you could mix air and nitrogen. I was wondering if it was some bs sales pitch told to him by a shady mechanic.
 
I agree the changing of the calipers at a brake change is just a stupid policy, but to be honest they've done my wife's car in the past and their pricing was the same as other shops locally who didn't change it. I never had a problem with her. I had a problem with them and my truck and as such, I go to a different shop and pay a little more money. I guess like anything in life, you get what you pay for.

I'd be willing to bet that one time in a far far away land, someone at Les Schwab did a brake job on someones job and the brakes failed, causing Les Schwab to get sued. I bet it came down to a caliper failure and Les Schwab ended up paying out to avoid the lawsuit all together, or was found that they should have "seen" the damaged caliper or something. So now they say fuck it, we change them all. I have no evidence to prove this, but I wouldn't be shocked if that was the case.
 
Seems like a good time to dig up this picture I have from like 8 years ago...

100-0080_IMG.jpg



Even before this dummy ignored the "squealer" indicator on the pads, went metal to metal and just anilhilated this setup, these rotors were not going to be reused.

Many high performance brake systems, like the Brembo setup here, have very aggressive pad material. This wears down the rotor and makes them so thin, they are already below the minimum or "discard" thickness by the time the pads have worn out. Many many German vehicles are like this.

So it is very believable that whatever hot rod car Berto's GF has (pics or it didn't happen bro), is probably in this boat. Les Schwab, Firestone, Midas, the dealership, and probably even the corner gas station will not try to reuse the rotors. Just about every professional mechanic takes those minimum thickness specs pretty seriously. Thin rotors can overheat faster and cause brake fade, which in turn can cause an accident. So of course any big company with a lot to lose in court is going to have a standing policy to not let a brake job go out the door if the rotors are under spec.

As for replacing calipers? What. The. Fuck? I'd find it hard to believe that Berto has got the girl rolling in some ancient hoo ride. So I don't think it'd be screwed up enough to need calipers. Now I have seen situations on some vehicles that have maybe had a brake job once or twice already, where I see some uneven pad wear from a sticking caliper. Ok, in that situation, I'm going to sell a pair (yes both sides) of calipers. No rebuild either. The days of rebuilding calipers are pretty much over mostly for liability reasons. Sure on some old cast iron one pot units, it's a fairly simple ordeal and will probably rebuild just fine. But on some of the newer monoblock aluminum ones, if you can even find a rebuild kit, you might find so much pitting in the bores, that they're scrap anyways. Maybe the gas station guy will rebuild. But again, no company with a lot to lose is gonna chance it.

As I said though, I doubt Berto has anything that is that old and worn out that it's got sticking calipers. So if that's Schwab's policy to throw calipers at every brake job, then they're just going way the hell overboard with the liability paranoia.
 
Antarius said:
I'd be willing to bet that one time in a far far away land, someone at Les Schwab did a brake job on someones job and the brakes failed, causing Les Schwab to get sued. I bet it came down to a caliper failure and Les Schwab ended up paying out to avoid the lawsuit all together, or was found that they should have "seen" the damaged caliper or something. So now they say fuck it, we change them all. I have no evidence to prove this, but I wouldn't be shocked if that was the case.
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When I managed a Wheel Works, or Wheel Jerks I should say...one of the first things they told me was no work involving fuel pumps or tanks. When I asked why, they said it was from some idiot working on his own car, and fucked it up causing a big fire.
 
Every BMW model made in the last decade requires new rotors EVERY time you replace the pads. Almost no exception.
 
Good posts Rob.

The super wacky thing about Les Schwab is they're not replacing the calipers with new calipers, they're rebuilt calipers! No joke.

As far as replacing rotors instead of turning them? I've found on the past, hell, 5 of my vehicles -- it's cheaper to replace the rotor than to turn it. They're just not that expensive anymore and they're usually pretty close to tolerance when they come off the car.

My truck got 80k out of the first set of fronts, and is 40k into the second set with no sign of an issue. I won't be shocked if when it's time, they need to be replaced AGAIN. The rears? Well they're drum and they'll last forever.
 
MrIncredible said:
Unless your girf brings it in. They'll tell her it needs new drums.
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To be honest, I've had good luck with Les Schwab overall - and good service - even with some of their weird policies.

I took the truck in there because the brakes were squeaking and said I need new front brakes. They looked at them and a half hour later said, "No you don't, the brakes are fine."

They could have diagnosed the actual problem I suppose, which would have been nice, but they didn't just put new brakes on the truck and tell me too bad.

It ended up being a wheel hub (truck has gone through two of them) that went out, wheel wobbled and caused it to squeak.

Another time I went in there to plug a flat and they did. Said it was going ot be like $15 or something. When they were done, they said I owed $0.

I dunno, the case with Berto doesn't sound like they were trying to ream his GF, it sounds like their normal semi-wacky practice of replacing calipers every time no matter what.
 
Holeshot said:
Anyone else experienced this? At Les Schwab, my GF brought in her car to have the brakes "looked at" after the indicator tab started squeaking. Women...they never trust when you tell them "it's just an indicator tab...it needs pads".

Anyway, at LS, the manager told her it needs pads, rotors and company policy is to replace (not rebuild, mind you, REPLACE) the Calipers....on a 35K mile car. The Calipers on discount are $1400 for the set. Say what....

Of course he also told her that these "luxury performance cars have softer rotors for the performance aspect and they'll need to be replaced too". Yeah...that. I explained all the bullshit there too, but the big question is: Have you ever heard of a company policy to replace calipers every time they do a brake job? Note: I called Bill and before I even got to this stage he said "let me guess, they want to replace the calipers"...which I laughed at. It's like replacing the engine when a car needs an oil change. WTF?

Course Bill's take on it was cute girl in a Hot Rod Luxo car, but still, Calipers? It just makes me want to take it in and have them explain that logic...and the whole "softer rotor" part. That's the cherry on top!
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Who takes a Hot Rod Luxo to the "oil changers" ? A semi-proper mechanics raping can be done at any Euro shop. :|

Just for kicks, I'd write them and LS corporate, telling them how deceitful and or incompetent they are. No matter which it is, you won't be sending either your personal, nor your fleet vehicles, to LS for any reason.
 
My LS experiences have been good. My guess is the commission based bonus incentive structure is making some of their management teams do some things, that perhaps, the corporate office wouldn't approve of.

As for why go to a chain store with a Lux HotRod? Because very few LHR car dealers do their own tire service; unlike those that service Veyrons, where the old tires and wheels are shipped to France for tire replacement and the wheels are stress tested for cracks, and flaws IIRC.

My heavy, track experienced, kinda LHR (Brembos and Ohlins :laughing) is at 86k, and has needed pads 3X and rotors once. I expect rotors to be under the minimum at the next brake job.
 
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Dr. Evil said:
This may seem terribly obvious, but hubs don't just break. Something is going on that is fucking up your hub.
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I've known a few people with Silverado's that have hubs randomly break on them. Sometimes they go for a hundred thousand miles, sometimes they don't.

In my case, my passenger hub went out at like 30,000 miles -- which I attributed to driving on unpaved roads rather frequently. My driver side went out at about 90,000 miles -- mostly freeway at that point.

So now I've got 90,000 miles on my "new" passenger side hub, and 30,000 miles on my "new" driver side hub.

We'll see how long they last. :)
 
Antarius said:
I've known a few people with Silverado's that have hubs randomly break on them. Sometimes they go for a hundred thousand miles, sometimes they don't.

In my case, my passenger hub went out at like 30,000 miles -- which I attributed to driving on unpaved roads rather frequently. My driver side went out at about 90,000 miles -- mostly freeway at that point.

So now I've got 90,000 miles on my "new" passenger side hub, and 30,000 miles on my "new" driver side hub.

We'll see how long they last. :)
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As soon as I read your first post I thought "he must have a chevy". Those wheel hub assembly's go out all the time. When you get a new one it's a crap shoot as to if it will be a good one or if it will be out again in 20-30 thousand miles. The independent suspension really torques the shit out of them.
 
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