School me: AWD, mid SUV, mid to high end, good mpg

[byke]

Sienna awd is good for designer snow, but they get a bit more than that up there.

 

[augustiron]

1) Size. bigger than current car is counter to a criteria
2) ground clearance. We get REAL snow here, and often drive through a foot or more before plows show up. I have lifted 2 Siennas for friends up here, I'm still not convinced they work great in Tahoe level snow. Yes, it's an outlier case, but even Subarus get hung up in deep snow . Sometimes ya gotta go out no matter if it's been plowed or not
3) driving dynamics - are meh, we've rented Siennas on a couple of trips. Very utilitarian. We always note how practical they are for carrying people and stuff, but they never made us go "we should have this"
4) fit/finish/cabin luxury - sure, I haven't been in one is 3 years or so, but road noise and cabin comfort were not that exciting to me, this is hand in hand with #3. I can't imagine they've taken a great leap forward.

I am not a high end car snob ( I drive old landcruisers), I loved my 3rd gen 4runner, until I drove the gx470. The fit, finish, cabin quietness, driving dynamics, everything, was a huge improvement, even compared to much newer 4runner (limited) and highlander (limited) test driven for comparison.
There IS a difference, and I am now spoiled.
Hence the " mid to high end" in the title. A sienna and highlander don't check that box.

 

[MC BumSlap]

Then you'll just have to build your own vehicle then. Good luck!

 

[bikeama]

1) Size. bigger than current car is counter to a criteria
2) ground clearance. We get REAL snow here, and often drive through a foot or more before plows show up. I have lifted 2 Siennas for friends up here, I'm still not convinced they work great in Tahoe level snow. Yes, it's an outlier case, but even Subarus get hung up in deep snow . Sometimes ya gotta go out no matter if it's been plowed or not
3) driving dynamics - are meh, we've rented Siennas on a couple of trips. Very utilitarian. We always note how practical they are for carrying people and stuff, but they never made us go "we should have this"
4) fit/finish/cabin luxury - sure, I haven't been in one is 3 years or so, but road noise and cabin comfort were not that exciting to me, this is hand in hand with #3. I can't imagine they've taken a great leap forward.

I am not a high end car snob ( I drive old landcruisers), I loved my 3rd gen 4runner, until I drove the gx470. The fit, finish, cabin quietness, driving dynamics, everything, was a huge improvement, even compared to much newer 4runner (limited) and highlander (limited) test driven for comparison.
There IS a difference, and I am now spoiled.
Hence the " mid to high end" in the title. A sienna and highlander don't check that box.

Bold and color are mine. You just describe me. 2007 we got a Toyota Rav4 Limited. I thought anyone who paid for a Lexas was just paid more for a label. 2018 we gave the Rav4 to our daughter, and it is still running. We tried a BMW that was not much more money than a loaded Honda. As you said. "There IS a difference, and I am now spoiled." Now trying an Audi. It is the little things that add up.

 

[byke]

Now trying an Audi. It is the little things that add up.

Pun intended..?

 

[davidji]

Bold and color are mine. You just describe me. 2007 we got a Toyota Rav4 Limited. I thought anyone who paid for a Lexas was just paid more for a label. 2018 we gave the Rav4 to our daughter, and it is still running. We tried a BMW that was not much more money than a loaded Honda. As you said. "There IS a difference, and I am now spoiled." Now trying an Audi. It is the little things that add up.

My only Audi ownership experience seems to have cured me of that brand forever.

Not having had a Lexus SUV, but having taken several trips in a RAV4 Prime, I was thinking how awesome that would be for OP's needs, other than apparently being short on luxury. The main thing it was missing that I really like is a panoramic sunroof. Both my Forester & my X1 have that. But not all luxury brands offer it.

I was also thinking for OPs use case smaller SUV would be fine depending on dog size & gear quantity (and if they're willing to occasionally carry roof or hitch mounted cargo). Smaller improves driving experience & fuel economy.

 

[augustiron]

I absolutely don't need a panoramic roof, or even a sunroof. I NEVER use them, and hate the hot sun beating down on me in a car.
Kids are becoming teenagers, rear seat and carrying space would be cramped in a RAV4. Also why the Lexus NX line is not being considered.

Also spoke to a friend with a Sienna who has been on the wait list for a new hybrid sienna for a year and was told they may get one next year. So those look difficult to come by unless you find one used.

 

[Kornholio]

either they've gotten better at mileage in a couple years, or you needed less AC than we did.

we had an Explorer as a rental a couple years ago (so would've been an '18 or '19 model), ran from Central CA to Austin, around Austin a bit, and back, roughly 2 week trip at the end of August. 3 of us + 2 dogs on board, and we averaged around 20mpg over the entire trip.

Rental...enough said. They're beat the fuck up. Also, the 2018-2019 is completely different from the current generation Explorer and used the 3.5 V6. The current generation uses the 2.3TT engine unless you get the hybrid, upscale Limited (mine is mid-tier and still uses the 2.3TT) or the ST. If I spank it, I still average over 20MPG.

I always look to fuelly.com for real world MPG for previous year car models.
New Explorer ltd 3.5 reports 20 mpg

You don't have to get the Limited with the 3.0 (I think that's what you meant as the 3.5 is no longer offered in the Explorer since 2019). In fact, that's more uncommon than it is common. Most dealers only stock the 2.3TT version as the 3.0 isn't really worth the upgrade costs due to the drop in mileage and the fact that it only comes with the top-tier Limited trim packages which have that panoramic moonroof that you don't want anyway. I don't blame you.

 

[augustiron]

Yeah the options for exploder engines on fuelly we're a bit overwhelming to pick out which one is current or not.

There's a lot of prejudice to overcome to get me and the wife to consider a Ford though. Our previous Fords? 1981 mustang 4 cylinder 5 speed, 1984 bronco 2 lifted with 33s, 1998 E350 moto hauler, 1990s Ranger.
All of which generally sucked

 

[Kornholio]

I get it. I've never had a single issue with any of the Fords I've owned. Not to mention that all the Fords you listed are absolutely nothing like today's offerings. Even a BMW from 1998 is shit compared to what they offer now. And probably a lot less reliable.

 

[augustiron]

True no doubt

 

[davidji]

Not to mention that all the Fords you listed are absolutely nothing like today's offerings.

That part I was aware of. I didn't like the old Explorer. Ranking it below the Trailblazer which I didn't love. But if I believe the cops on BARF the new Explorer is much better to drive.

I had Fords on my list when I last car shopped, though they didn't make the final cut. I've never owned a Ford.

 

[Kornholio]

The Police Interceptor versions have the ST's running gear...of course they like them.

 

[Holeshot]

Data point: wifey bought a brand new Volvo v70r off the lot in 2004 ($70k?) And it had a hard time on the streets of SF for 10 years. (Hi Holeshot!)

I STILL should have done it..

K, Im gonna be the weird one here (and probably dismissed), but you are in snow country and it's hard to keep a car in great shape over harsh winters. I've learned this with our vehicles....so, this might lead to a divorce, but consider the Buick Regal TourX. @<$30K (used), you've got enough left over for a "summer" vehicle too, etc.

If not that, I'd say possibly a 21'+ Cayenne PHEV or full EV with the Audi E-tron. I would not purchase a new PHEV at this time and while I agree with the guys on the Volvo XC60/XC90 choices, these are a bit long in the tooth and there's plenty on the used market(s).

What about a lovely white, 37K mile 19' E63S Wagon? I mean, you can plug the charger into the door and slam it on it and pretend...then roast around @ 12mpg and live the yolo life of outlaws.

I'm here to help you make 15-year-old-inherited-money decisions.

 

[augustiron]

You would have hated me if you bought that v70r. So nice on the road, but the bills!!!

Let me add some more information here so everybody can plainly see what an idiot I am.
This is not a humble brag. I have to thin the herd, I am not rich. I am a hoarder.

The whole reason this conversation came up is we are already juggling 8 cars between us. (moto collection is separate and we will not be discussing)

"She" has 2 cars.
- The gx470 (winter beast, family trip hauler, 15mpg) comfortable, reliable and paid for and easy to maintain by me.
- inherited 2019 Chevy Trax 2wd econobox when dad passed. Nothing good to say except 30mpg and Sirius XM. She prefers to drive this when possible for gas savings. I can't drive it or drive in it as it is so uncomfortable to me. We also park it out of town and don't drive it from November to April on average. Stupid to keep in my opinion.

The idea was to "combine" both into one do it all and upgrade to a newer, better mpg AWD that is nice and comfortable, not too big, reliable, small enough it isnt a full size, but big enough to take the 4 of us and some gear away for a long weekend (yes, we have a roof box) and comfortable enough for me to drive in.

The other 6 vehicles?
- 3 project landcruisers, (75, 84, 96) great for around town only, 96 should be more usable when I reduce the tire size (blasphemy!!)
- my basic bitch 08 gmc 4x4 pickup, my current DD but not getting used much as a P/u and may be sold and I drive the gx.
- e350 ex-afm ex-wheelchair van bought off barf, acts as dump runner and storage unit for landcruiser projects.
- big ass expensive class C RV, oh wait, I sold that today! Woohoo

Fj40 and wife's car in the garage for winter. I have another garage space but it is always filled with a project so my vehicles mainly live outside in winter.

Yes, cars take a beating here, more scratches from snow and ice removal, chipped and cracked windshields annually.

We are trying to get away from the summer/winter car thing (except the 75 fj40 with the top off, that is the dedicated around town summer car)

 

[augustiron]

Also, Holeshot, why not buy a phev now?

I can't really say your mentions did anything but make me cringe a bit for different reasons each.

 

[Abacinator]

I get it. I've never had a single issue with any of the Fords I've owned. Not to mention that all the Fords you listed are absolutely nothing like today's offerings. Even a BMW from 1998 is shit compared to what they offer now. And probably a lot less reliable.

A BMW from 1998 is not nearly as nice as recent offerings in terms of comfort and amenities, but BMWs reliability has really nosedived in the last 10 years.

 

[dtrides]

Yea, don't understand how these mid size suv's don't do better in the MPG.
The wife has a ford Escape with AWD . On highway she gets about 26 on the flats.
I drive a 2021 F250 4x crew cab with 6.7 diesel. I get about 25 mpg on the flats, a/c on 70-75 mph in my small house size flying brick...470 hp and over 1000 of TQ.
Plus, the new truck is comfy and pretty quite so for the difference of 1 or 2 mpg I often choose to drive the truck .
Yes, diesel is more expensive but many of these small suv's require super if you want the full hp out of them so once again, not a huge difference.
DT

 

[TheRobSJ]

Yea, don't understand how these mid size suv's don't do better in the MPG.

I know why. And it’s a whole variety of factors.

They’re all heavy. No not Suburban heavy. But still heavier than their mid size sedan equivalents by several hundred pounds. Most mid size SUVs come in the low to mid 4000lb range. Plus they of course have more aero drag. And the push for bigger and bigger wheels on everything (especially SUVs) definitely hurts. Yet they are all still mostly powered by the same engines that are in the equivalent mid size counterparts. Case in point, we have two ‘21 Acuras, a TLX and a RDX. Both all wheel drive and the same engine and transmission powering them. The SUV averages about 4-5mpg less than the sedan.

But that’s not really news to most I suspect.

Here’s another thing that really is holding these things back. The push in recent year to go from large displacement naturally aspirated engines to smaller turbocharged engines in the name of fuel economy seems to have accomplished the goal…on paper. In the real world, we’ve gone backwards. While this isn’t a “dieselgate” level of deception, there has been a bit of a lie the auto industry has been forced to put on everyone. On the EPA test loop, these modern vehicles with small turbo engines do yield better numbers than the natural aspirated larger engines they replaced. So the number on the window sticker is higher and they get to raise their CAFE number and keep the governments off their back for another year. And of course other little tricks like the auto start/stop system that everyone hates, ultra lean burn fuel timing at low throttle (like how someone drives rhe EPA loop), low rolling resistance tires, and so on…I know Honda does a particularly trick thing with a staged electronic regulation of turbo boost in lower gears. In the real world, people don’t drive like how they do on the test loop. Much heavier footed, which gets the turbo into boost much more often. Auto stop gets turned the hell off immediately as soon as most people start the car, so there goes another maybe 1mpg you lose.

Case in point? Let’s take those Acuras again. Our ‘21 Acuras have 2.0L turbo four engines. Roughly the same horsepower (but more torque) than the stalwart 3.5L natural V6 they replaced. A V6 I had in my ‘18 TLX and is still under the hood of my mother’s ‘18 RDX. So a generation newer vehicle with fancy 10 speed automatics compared to last generation with bigger V6s and less gears…I got 2mpg better with my old TLX and 1mpg better with the old RDX.

 

[augustiron]

Not to mention the $0.20 or more per gallon of the required premium fuel to run those small engines on high comp or boost....