• There has been a recent cluster of spammers accessing BARFer accounts and posting spam. To safeguard your account, please consider changing your password. It would be even better to take the additional step of enabling 2 Factor Authentication (2FA) on your BARF account. Read more here.

School me: AWD, mid SUV, mid to high end, good mpg

Not to mention the $0.20 or more per gallon of the required premium fuel to run those small engines on high comp or boost....

The mass market brands (well a lot of them) will only recommend 87 octane while their premium counterparts have a little more horsepower because they’re tuned for premium fuel. Accord vs TLX. Same exact 2.0l engine. Honda has 252hp while the Acura has 272hp.

Some PHEV powertrain recommend premium because the gas sometimes will sit in the tank for long periods because the owner only uses it on EV. The Volt did this. Despite having an unimpressive hamster wheel for a gas engine, it required 91.
 
I forgot you asked earlier. But we keep saying RX450h here. So I assume you’re tying to find a 2022 or older model then? Because the RX is completely new for 2023 and it becomes the RX500h.

So you want the new new thing here or fine with the last of the outgoing generation?
 
i've been sick for a few days so i apologize for not chiming in with useless comments earlier

if you want to trade that POS GX470 straight up for a high mileage 2004 multistrada let me know. i'll ride it up to you and drive the gx home free of charge.
 
i've been sick for a few days so i apologize for not chiming in with useless comments earlier

if you want to trade that POS GX470 straight up for a high mileage 2004 multistrada let me know. i'll ride it up to you and drive the gx home free of charge.

If the multi makes it here in 3.5 hrs or less without being loaded into a truck, dolly, trailer or otherwise not under it's own power, the gx is yours :twofinger


Rob, the local dealer has a few 22 450hs in stock, I am open to the 500, but don't want to pay ADM for the latest greatest or wait forever for an open ended order timeline.
So either is fine, unless you have a reason to go one over the other besides first year teething problems potential on the 500....
 
If the multi makes it here in 3.5 hrs or less without being loaded into a truck, dolly, trailer or otherwise not under it's own power, the gx is yours :twofinger


Rob, the local dealer has a few 22 450hs in stock, I am open to the 500, but don't want to pay ADM for the latest greatest or wait forever for an open ended order timeline.
So either is fine, unless you have a reason to go one over the other besides first year teething problems potential on the 500....

that is absolutely possible... i couldn't do it but you didn't say I have to be riding :teeth
 
Rob, the local dealer has a few 22 450hs in stock, I am open to the 500, but don't want to pay ADM for the latest greatest or wait forever for an open ended order timeline.
So either is fine, unless you have a reason to go one over the other besides first year teething problems potential on the 500....

C’mon this is Lexus. They may be one of the last brands left that actually would be embarrassed if they released beta test car for the first year.

The 500 is the hot rod. If you’re really chasing mileage, the new 350h will return 36mpg combined.

I personally would get the 2023 over the last gen. The infotainment system looks to be much much better and the interior in general seems to have a more cohesive design.

I would suggest going through Pleasanton Lexus. Or find a Hendrick owned Lexus store closer to you. But Hendrick policy has historically been no markups.
 
Also, Holeshot, why not buy a phev now?

I can't really say your mentions did anything but make me cringe a bit for different reasons each. :)

At the current time, I don't believe a PHEV will get enough range in snow country for the extra weight being carried around all the time. I say "don't buy new", cause I think EV tech will change enough in 3-5 years to give proper range in snow country. Also, given the "fleet" you've got, you "could" chance a full EV now, but once again; snow country. That worries me in range reduction and what happens when the vehicle reaches ultra low range in creeping storm highways, etc. It's tough, cause we're getting near a tipping point where a hybrid is going to be very limited in appeal, IMO and have limited markets with that appeal. I do believe snow country will be one of those markets, however.

There's enough used product out there that's worth the savings too, IMO. Unless new is the order of the day, which isn't a bad thing.

Here’s another thing that really is holding these things back. The push in recent year to go from large displacement naturally aspirated engines to smaller turbocharged engines in the name of fuel economy seems to have accomplished the goal…on paper. In the real world, we’ve gone backwards. While this isn’t a “dieselgate” level of deception, there has been a bit of a lie the auto industry has been forced to put on everyone. On the EPA test loop, these modern vehicles with small turbo engines do yield better numbers than the natural aspirated larger engines they replaced. So the number on the window sticker is higher and they get to raise their CAFE number and keep the governments off their back for another year. And of course other little tricks like the auto start/stop system that everyone hates, ultra lean burn fuel timing at low throttle (like how someone drives rhe EPA loop), low rolling resistance tires, and so on…I know Honda does a particularly trick thing with a staged electronic regulation of turbo boost in lower gears. In the real world, people don’t drive like how they do on the test loop. Much heavier footed, which gets the turbo into boost much more often. Auto stop gets turned the hell off immediately as soon as most people start the car, so there goes another maybe 1mpg you lose.

Case in point? Let’s take those Acuras again. Our ‘21 Acuras have 2.0L turbo four engines. Roughly the same horsepower (but more torque) than the stalwart 3.5L natural V6 they replaced. A V6 I had in my ‘18 TLX and is still under the hood of my mother’s ‘18 RDX. So a generation newer vehicle with fancy 10 speed automatics compared to last generation with bigger V6s and less gears…I got 2mpg better with my old TLX and 1mpg better with the old RDX.

solid post.
 
ECanyonero!!!


very-cosmopolitan-cosmopolitan.gif
 
Not to mention the $0.20 or more per gallon of the required premium fuel to run those small engines on high comp or boost....

Can't speak for other forced-injection brands, but Ford's don't require premium fuel. I've ran both premium and regular in my Explorer and the mileage is the same. There's absolutely no discernible difference. Now, the manual will say that there's a "slight" performance increase by using premium fuel, but again, from my butt-dyno, I'm not seeing the difference. The only time I really use high-octane fuel is when it's really hot or when I'm towing to prevent detonation. Otherwise, it's just regular unleaded for me.

Also, I know what Rob is saying, but my fuel receipts and basic math actually show that the mileage I'm getting is real. I don't rely on trip computers as, yes, they do lie. It's really easy to calculate your own mileage and mine really does average 26+. I also regularly set the cruise at just five over on the highways too which absolutely makes a difference.
 
I really don't think you NEED anything more than 87 octane. The ECU's in today's cars can compensate for the lower octane. Having said that...LOL...I put 89 in my MkVII GTI when I had it.

Otherwise, 87 it is. Zero fucks given.
 
Thanks for the insight and keeping the dialogue going folks. I really appreciate it. I'm learning a lot and have a lot to think about.

Having worked in renewable energy for 10 plus years I am aware of the changes in storage technology and how quickly things can become outdated, But as long as I've been watching it it's just been a slow steady increase in power density, nothing revolutionary that I would consider game changing.

But I do believe things will continue to improve and we have a long way to go and these years will be looked at as a bridge and That's why I've been hesitant to dive into the EV or even hybrid realms so far.

Kornholio, what is your exact engine spec? Year/model/trim/engine?
 
Good lookin rig :thumbup

It must be fun watching everybody slam on the brakes yield and pull over to the right on the highway in front of you as you roll up on them
 
Last edited:
I really don't think you NEED anything more than 87 octane. The ECU's in today's cars can compensate for the lower octane. Having said that...LOL...I put 89 in my MkVII GTI when I had it.

Otherwise, 87 it is. Zero fucks given.

There are some exceptions to the zero fucks given situation. And the key words on the inside of the fuel door are recommended versus required.

So you’re right, if you want to pay extra for a premium vehicle with more horsepower than its mass market counterpart, only to cheap out and save maybe a hundred bucks at most per year on gas? Then yes, the computer will detect your miserly ways by hearing the preignition and retarding timing to limit performance and efficiency (which may wind up offsetting your savings because of a mpg drop) of the engine. Which will let you “get away” with running 87.

If the wording is premium fuel “required” then you are more than likely driving a very high performance vehicle. Something that more than likely costs six figures and gets awful gas mileage any way you cut it, so if you’re putting 87 in something like this, the vehicle should be confiscated and impounded till you get your priorities straight.

I can assure you that if I put 87 in my Corvette, all hell will break loose. Even 91 I will get a flashing check engine light sometimes as the computer simply cannot compensate enough. I believe it says “93 required” in one place somewhere…which does present a bit of a problem in CA.
 
Back
Top