speeding motorcycles, cop, gun, bang!

[tuxumino]

yep in the long vid, the copper was behind them for 3-4 minutes without cause to pull them over.
cop got jumpy and ruined someones life

 

[Xenophonii]

I didn't see any reason for the cop to be alarmed... there is only so much the guy can do while on the bike - turning 180 and snapping off shots from the right hand side isn't looking too probable... looks to me that the cop got jumpy and shot him, way out of line, IMHO....

 

[JihadiKiller031]

Waiting for Jihadi's response to this one...

I think the cop was wrong. He reacted way to fast in the situation without thinking, especially with another officer in the background who could have responded. In this situation it is blatantly apparent that the officer reacted to the situation wrong and made a bad judgement call. I CAN SEE it in the video, therefore I CAN make that call on my opinion. Fucknuts.

The cop could have handled things differently, he could have shot him in the leg or something if he really felt that threatened.

He also could have hidden behind his door and used it as armor, or stayed in the squad car, and instruct him to turn the bike off, throw the key to the ground, get off the bike, and get on the ground.

You don't shoot at extremities. You go for the largest target on the body to neutralize the suspect. Less likely to miss and hurt someone not involved.

As for the second part, that is why I feel he went to his gun way to fast given the situation. I wouldn't be surprised if the department always trains to shoot immediately from the draw and when the officers muscle memory kicked in that is what happened. The human body is an amazing and funny thing in high stress situations.
*DISCLAIMER FOR KEITH* I AM IN NO WAY SAYING THAT THE OFFICER IS RIGHT OR SHOULD GO UNPUNISHED. I DISAGREE WITH HOW HE REACTED BUT ALSO UNDERSTAND HOW MUSCLE MEMORY TRAINING WORKS FROM MY EXPERIENCE AND AM NOTING IT AS A POSSIBILITY AS TO WHY THIS MAY HAVE HAPPENED. IT DOESN'T MAKE THE OFFICER RIGHT, BUT IT DOES HELP TO NOTICE THINGS LIKE THE TRAINING AN OFFICER DOES WHEN THINGS LIKE THIS HAPPEN TO PREVENT FUTURE PROBLEMS.

 

[VTRZA]

butthurt jarhead is butthurt :3

 

[norcalkeith]

Jihadi - It was more of a joke than anything, I don't actually care what you think about this situation - and i mean no offense by that either, seriously.




edit: and for what it's worth, I agree with that you said for the most part.

 

[Aluisious]

The cop could have handled things differently, he could have shot him in the leg or something if he really felt that threatened.

If I have a gun and you shoot me in the leg, I will certainly shoot you somewhere more vital.

He also could have hidden behind his door and used it as armor

Might work if the perp is wielding a BB gun.

 

[Holeshot]

The perp wasn't weilding any weapon though. Officer's are trained to deal with high stress situations and make the right call. Even a lay person would not have shot here.

 

[Climber]

From what's available on the video, the cop had no reason to shoot the guy.

He yelled something less than a second before shooting the rider.

It certainly looked like the officer was at fault there and should pay the price. Personally, I don't think he should ever be allowed to carry a gun again.

 

[VTRZA]

The rider could have made his hands visible. Play time is over biker dude.

God I hope you get shot in the back someday for speeding. Then we can all sit here and go playtimes over dude!

His hands were visible. His arm was just dangling to the side. Seriously, all the people in this thread trying to rationalize this make me sick. What the hell is the matter with you?

 

[gixxerjoeca]

That wasnt a good shoot. I didnt see anything in the videos that warranted shooting the Harley rider.

 

[Traq]

That wasnt a good shoot. I didnt see anything in the videos that warranted shooting the Harley rider.

Other than riding a Harley, of course.

 

[VTRZA]

Other than riding a Harley, of course.

 

[gixxerjoeca]

Other than riding a Harley, of course.

Poor fags

 

[sanjuro]

I read an analysis of questionable cop shootings after our man Johannes popped Oscar on BART.

It stated how unlikely it is to convict a police officer for a shooting in the line of duty. I think even the worse cases of total negligence, there was no conviction.

I doubt this cop will ever go on patrol again, but I don't think he will be convicted on a bad judgment call.

 

[Bubba_s]

Awful, good to see most agree. The guy was so calm, probably thinking about the ticket he was about to get... BANG! bullshit

 

[4tuneit1]

God I hope you get shot in the back someday for speeding. Then we can all sit here and go playtimes over dude!

His hands were visible. His arm was just dangling to the side. Seriously, all the people in this thread trying to rationalize this make me sick. What the hell is the matter with you?

Want to tempt a TOS suspension go bye bye?? ...keep it up you're treading on thin ice here with the personally threats. No where did I say the cop wasn't guilty, or said the biker had full guilt. I simply put it in real world terms that both of these bikers just made a bad mistake that got one shot, even if the cop was in the wrong, they made the bad choice to make a FELONY pursuit out of a traffic violation. So you're wrong. It wasn't just speeding. The cop didn't know if these two were involved in a prior felony causing them to speed away, and we don't have both sides of the story. The hand movement the biker made could have been conceived as a motion to draw a gun, even if it was bad protocol it is enough reasoning and shown on tape to draw a decent arguement from the officers defense. You've shown a disposition here to reject, mock, and now call for violence against me, for harboring a different opinion. This is becoming a trend of yours in thread after thread VTRZA...maybe you need the vacation from BARF.

 

[VTRZA]

Want to tempt a TOS suspension go bye bye?? ...keep it up you're treading on thin ice here with the personally threats. No where did I say the cop wasn't guilty, or said the biker had full guilt. I simply put it in real world terms that both of these bikers just made a bad mistake that got one shot, even if the cop was in the wrong, they made the bad choice to make a FELONY pursuit out of a traffic violation. So you're wrong. It wasn't just speeding. The cop didn't know if these two were involved in a prior felony causing them to speed away, and we don't have both sides of the story. The hand movement the biker made could have been conceived as a motion to draw a gun, even if it was bad protocol it is enough reasoning and shown on tape to draw a decent arguement from the officers defense. You've shown a disposition here to reject, mock, and now call for violence against me, for harboring a different opinion. This is becoming a trend of yours in thread after thread VTRZA...maybe you need the vacation from BARF.

lolwut? Where did I threaten you? Are you high? Felony pursuit? Did you even watch the video? You seem to think it's ok for someone to get shot for speeding. One of these days if you found yourself on the recieving end of such treatment I would relish the opportunity to point and laugh. Don't try to turn it into something more than it is.

PS Seek help.


edit: to clarify, that statement was made to point out how morally reprehensible your position is, and judging by your massive amount of butthurt, maybe it got through.

 

[gixxerjoeca]

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100511/NEWS02/5110365/0/COLUMNIST41

Article published May 11, 2010
OTTAWA HILLS OFFICER'S TRIAL CONTINUES
Motorcyclist recalls being shot by Ottawa Hills officer

By ERICA BLAKE
BLADE STAFF WRITER


Seated in a wheelchair before a Lucas County Common Pleas Court jury, Michael McCloskey, Jr., recounted Tuesday what he remembered of the night he was shot by an Ottawa Hills police officer.

During day two of the trial of Officer Thomas White, Mr. McCloskey was one of four witnesses who testified. Officer White, who has been on leave since the May 23, 2009, shooting, is charged with felonious assault with a gun specification.

If convicted, the officer could be sentenced up to 11 years in prison.

Mr. McCloskey testified that he and a friend were riding motorcycles at about 2:15 a.m. when they took a route down Indian Road in Ottawa Hills. He said that because of the noise of his Harley Davidson motorcycle, it wasn't until he had come to a complete stop at Central Avenue and began idling that he realized a police vehicle was behind him with its lights and sirens activated.

It was moments later that he felt what he described as "excruciating pain."

"I heard a yell. It wasn't a distinct word, it was a human voice," he testified. "I remember feeling instant paralysis. … I reared up but with instant paralysis, I couldn't do anything so I fell."

The jury of nine women and three men watched a video of the incident taken from the dashboard camera mounted in Officer White's patrol vehicle. The recording shows Officer White following the two motorcycles for several minutes before activating his lights and sirens.

It is within seconds of Officer White exiting his vehicle that Mr. McCloskey can be seen being shot.

In response to questions asked by defense attorney Jerry Phillips, Mr. McCloskey acknowledged that he did not raise his hands. He further acknowledged that his first statement to investigators was that he heard the officer order him to put up his hands, although he said yesterday that it was too loud to distinguish the command.

"I believe I was in the process of shifting from gear to neutral when I was shot," he said. "…It happened so fast, I didn't have time to comply."

Also testifying Tuesday was Ottawa Hills Police Officer Christopher Sargent, who was the second officer on duty that night, a crime scene analyst, and Klint Sharpe, a friend of Mr. McCloskey's who drove up on the scene.


The counter ticking away on video indicated it was seconds - possibly just three - between the time Ottawa Hills Police Officer Thomas White exited his patrol vehicle and when Michael McCloskey can be seen falling to the ground.
It was at that moment, an investigator testified yesterday, that Officer White had fired a single shot.
The video taken at about 2:15 a.m. on May 23 last year by the dashboard camera of Officer White's patrol car was shown in Lucas County Common Pleas Court yesterday, during the first day of his criminal trial.
Accused of shooting Mr. McCloskey once in the back, Officer White, 27, is charged with felonious assault with a gun specification.

A part-time dispatcher and part-time police officer for the village of Ottawa Hills, Officer White faces up to 11 years in prison if convicted.
During opening statements yesterday afternoon, Assistant County Prosecutor J. Christopher Anderson told jurors that prosecutors intend to prove that

Officer White "was not justified" in the shooting and that "excessive force was used."
He said Mr. McCloskey, 25, and another motorcyclist were riding home from a nightspot where Mr. McCloskey worked as security.


While driving down Indian Road in Ottawa Hills, nearing West Central Avenue, the two motorcyclists were followed and then stopped by Officer White, he said.
"There was no reason for Officer White to fire his weapon or even pull his gun," Mr. Anderson told jurors.
He added that the result was Officer White "shooting Mr. McCloskey in the back."
Defense attorney Jerry Phillips countered during opening statements that the situation was "tense and fluid" and that Officer White "was doing his job."
He asked jurors to judge the officer using only the knowledge that he had - and not "with 20/20 hindsight."
"He was patrolling in Ottawa Hills. He didn't anticipate any problems, he wasn't looking for any problems," Mr. Phillips said. "… The force that was used by Officer White on that occasion was reasonable force to protect himself and [a fellow officer on scene.]"
The jury of nine women and three men viewed the video of the incident, which was recorded on the camera inside Officer White's patrol car.
The 14-minute video begins several minutes before Officer White activates his lights and sirens and continues until paramedics arrive to care for the wounded motorcyclist.

The video shows the officer firing his weapon, followed by several minutes of the fallen motorcyclist - only his left leg showing on the bike while his right lay out of sight underneath the bike. At one point, the recording picks up audio of Mr. McCloskey yelling that he'd been paralyzed.
Special Agent David Pauly, of the Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation, testified that the camera was manually turned on and then off by Officer White.
The investigator of the incident, the special agent testified that it was moments after Officer White exited his car that the gunshot could be heard.
"Officer White is out of the car, yells something, and fires his weapon. That's about three seconds," Agent Pauly said.
During questions from both attorneys, Agent Pauly said that both Mr. McCloskey and the fellow motorcyclist, Aaron Snyder, stopped for about 10 seconds on Indian Road at Westchester Road before taking off again at speeds higher than the posted 25 mph limit. He said it took Mr. McCloskey about five seconds - about 600 feet - to stop his motorcycle after the officer had activated his lights and sirens behind him.
On the video, the police car is stopped behind the motorcyle and Mr. McCloskey is looking back toward the officer. This is when Mr. McCloskey is apparently shot by the officer, who is not shown at this time, and the victim falls off his motorcyle.
The officer then appears on the screen and has his gun drawn while the victim is on the ground. After a period, the officer and another man lift the motorcycle off of the victim.

Mr. Snyder, Agent Pauley said, continued through Central Avenue on a median before being stopped on the other side.
Although saying that Mr. Snyder may have been fleeing from police, Agent Pauly said he did not believe Mr. McCloskey was.
Agent Pauly also testified that Mr. McCloskey had a 2-inch knife concealed in his boot. Despite a search of Mr. McCloskey by Officer White after the shooting, the knife was not found at the scene, he said.
In response to questions from Mr. Phillips, the special agent acknowledged that the Ottawa Hills Police Department's use of force policy dictates that deadly force is used only if the officer feels his life is in jeopardy or the lives of fellow officers or the general public are in jeopardy. He also acknowledged to the defense that he knew of no bad blood between Officer White and Mr. McCloskey.
"From your investigation, why did Officer White shoot Mr. McCloskey on May 23, 2009?" Mr. Phillips asked.
"It's unknown," he responded.
Agent Pauly is the first of several witnesses expected to testify during the anticipated week-long trial before Judge Gary Cook.
Expected to testify today is Mr. McCloskey, who has been in a wheelchair since the incident because of paralysis from the waist down.
Contact Erica Blake at:
eblake@theblade.com,
or 419-213-2134.

 

[VTRZA]

they made the bad choice to make a FELONY pursuit out of a traffic violation. So you're wrong. It wasn't just speeding.

He said it took Mr. McCloskey about five seconds - about 600 feet - to stop his motorcycle after the officer had activated his lights and sirens behind him.

Wait who's wrong? since when has it been a felony pursuit when you stop 5 seconds later. Once again you show your ignorance about the topic at hand.

You've shown a disposition here to reject, mock, me for harboring a different opinion.

gee I wonder why?

Saying playtime's over about a guy getting shot in the back and paralyzed is a pretty fucked up thing to say. Especially about one of your fellow motorcyclists.

 

[4tuneit1]

Wait who's wrong? since when has it been a felony pursuit when you stop 5 seconds later. Once again you show your ignorance about the topic at hand.


Sorry but the law doesn't take into account the time involved even if its 5 seconds or 15 minutes. Both could be charged with Felony for evasion and the reckless riding (losing control of the motorcycle) not to mention any other other charges related to their actions. And secondly, I haven't convicted the riders as guilty anywhere in the thread, even my opening statement was pointing out the ridiculousness of the riders flippancy to lead cops with guns on chase and not take into account the officers mindset, correct in their actions or not. Play with guys with guns and badges and you might get shot...that is real life shit. Cops shouldn't be put in positions like this if these guys had nothing better to do. Why tempt it? So guys like you can point fingers without knowing both sides, just what they gather from a internet video? Really all you've said here in reaction is immature verbal garbage, pretty troll like in fact, I'm sure you're happy about yourself though.

Felony Evasion:


(1) The peace officer's motor vehicle is exhibiting at least one lighted red lamp visible from the front and the person either sees or reasonably should have seen the lamp.

(2) The peace officer's motor vehicle is sounding a siren as may be reasonably necessary.

(3) The peace officer's motor vehicle is distinctively marked.

(4) The peace officer's motor vehicle is operated by a peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal Code, and that peace officer is wearing a distinctive uniform.


2800.1. (a) Any person who, while operating a motor vehicle and with the intent to evade, willfully flees or otherwise attempts to elude a pursuing peace officer's motor vehicle, is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year if all of the following conditions exist:

Felony Evasion:
2800.2. (a) If a person flees or attempts to elude a pursuing peace officer in violation of Section 2800.1 and the pursued vehicle is driven in a willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property, the person driving the vehicle, upon conviction, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison, or by confinement in the county jail for not less than six months nor more than one year. The court may also impose a fine of not less than one thousand dollars ($1,000) nor more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or may impose both that imprisonment or confinement and fine.

(b) For purposes of this section, a willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property includes, but is not limited to, driving while fleeing or attempting to elude a pursuing peace officer during which time either three or more violations that are assigned a traffic violation point count under Section 12810 occur, or damage to property occurs.


AND

2800.3. (a) Whenever willful flight or attempt to elude a pursuing peace officer in violation of Section 2800.1 proximately causes serious bodily injury to any person, the person driving the pursued vehicle, upon conviction, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for three, five, or seven years, by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or by a fine of not less than two thousand dollars ($2,000) nor more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

(b) Whenever willful flight or attempt to elude a pursuing peace officer in violation of Section 2800.1 proximately causes death to a person, the person driving the pursued vehicle, upon conviction, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a term of 4, 6, or 10 years.

(c) Nothing in this section shall preclude the imposition of a greater sentence pursuant to Section 190 of the Penal Code or any other provisions of law applicable to punishment for an unlawful death.
(d) For the purposes of this section, “serious bodily injury” has the same meaning as defined in paragraph (4) of subdivision (f) of Section 243 of the Penal Code.