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SPLIT from Fatality on Skaggs - Bap

Just for the record I did not know ollie,but this crash was in my back yard where I have ridden for a long time..5 mins from home...I just have seen the good things and good freinds this has affected and dont want to see blame tossed at anybody...I can say this for sure I was out at the bridge for over a hour that sad day and realy wish ollie made it out there earlier so I could have met such a great person....RIP OLLIE:ride
 
Actually, the contradiction that for some reason resonated with me was the statement about "we all" go 30 - 130...but then saying not much braking is needed unless you're going 80 - 120. Not really sure what that all means. I know that for whatever reason, FASTFLEE is hurting over this. Maybe because he's ridden that road too fast, maybe because he's known someone else who did. The whole thing is a damn shame and it's too bad that we've f'd it up so badly, we can't take any lessons back to try and keep anyone else from the same fate.

As for the reason for the thread split...I won't speak in length over Chi and his IM's, but I admit to being jealous of those whose hand he asked in marriage. The messages I received were...a bit baser. I frankly don't find room for many mistakes in IM'ing. His huge heart and love for the motorcycling community are the only things that I think have kept him from further scrutiny.

Sane_Man said:
It's almost funny how many contradictions that are in your post. :rolleyes

One part you say he had brakes, the next part you say he didn't need brakes unless he was going a certain speed, but he could have grabbed a handful, but there aren't any skid marks.


You must be a lawyer, because you leave just enough ambiguous statements to cover yourself no matter which way this goes. Basically, you are arguing for the sake of arguing your point on something that can't be proved one way or the other.

Nice. :|
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Yes I have guilt,I get up early and hit skaggs,I ride it fast and probly over my head at times...but I do this alone before most are up and out,This one just hit home,like i said I live mins from where it happened and one of my high school freinds towed the bike,All I have got for the last few weeks is how much danger I put myself in and now with a three month old I should stop riding...suxxxx... I also just joined on here and found it hard to belive how tuff all can be to a falling rider....I hate to say this out loud but the crash was caused by speed....and we all do it out there,no one rides for hours up to skaggs to do the posted speed limit of 30-35....I just want every one when they hit that left turn up the hill before the lake to give ollie a thought and think about what they are doing...ride to have fun ride in your limits let that faster guy go dont push each other,save that for track days..
 
FASTFLEE said:
Yes I have guilt,I get up early and hit skaggs,I ride it fast and probly over my head at times...but I do this alone before most are up and out,This one just hit home,like i said I live mins from where it happened and one of my high school freinds towed the bike,All I have got for the last few weeks is how much danger I put myself in and now with a three month old I should stop riding...suxxxx... I also just joined on here and found it hard to belive how tuff all can be to a falling rider....I hate to say this out loud but the crash was caused by speed....and we all do it out there,no one rides for hours up to skaggs to do the posted speed limit of 30-35....I just want every one when they hit that left turn up the hill before the lake to give ollie a thought and think about what they are doing...ride to have fun ride in your limits let that faster guy go dont push each other,save that for track days..
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We are tough because he dose not care anymore. He is beyond caring, beyond hope, beyond our good or bad wishes. So what is said does not matter to him. He is dead.

But you, and others like you, aren't. Speak ill of the dead, for the sake of the living.

It is 99% certain, based on witness statements, that whatever caused his crash was his fault, and he paid with his life. Whether it was bad brakes, an unseen obstacle, or simple panic, solo crashes like this are almost always the rider's fault. Speed doesn't happen: the throttle doesn't turn itself.

And you admit that you ride over your head, on the same road, and that you have loved ones who love you, care for you, and depend on you.

If his death can get through and get you to slow down, then at least something good can come of his pointless death.
 
Please end this discussion

I really don't know what to say. However, I cannot stand idly by while everyone attempts to vilify FASTFLEE for defending the honor of my fallen friend. While I was out in California assisting Oliver's parents get the body and his things in order, I had the chance to talk to Lee. I must say he is a kind, kind gentleman and he helped us immensely without ever knowing who we or Oliver was. He likely knows us better now because of our postings on this site. The end result is the same. I lost my best friend and you all lost a fellow rider. If Oliver was still alive, he wouldn’t care one way or another. Some rich old guy said that happiness is a journey, not a destination. I have no doubt in my mind that he was happy riding down that road.

Please end this discussion.
 
^ Big Sexy - I can only speak for myself, but my post was not in any way an attempt to villify Lee, rather, point out that all of these incidents leave many of us asking a lot of questions about ourselves. As I have tried rather ineptly to word in other posts, if someone could have shown me that my friend made huge mistakes that led to the accident that took his life, I might still be riding now. As it is, I have not been on my bike for over 4 months. :( Because there is no guarantee, no matter what we do.

Lee, I did not mean to imply at all that you should not be riding; I think if anything, this thread has served a purpose in you realizing your own boundaries, and that no one is immune, especially if not playing as best they can by the rules.

I sincerely hope that you find some peace when all this is said and done.
 
FASTFLEE said:
Look guys the damm bike has breaks..glazed maybe I dont know,the turn poor ollie went down on is not to crazy and not alot of breaking needed....skaggs is a fun flowing road that you can run 55-65 with out alot of braking...IF YOU KNOW THE ROAD!!!!!!!!!!!!! the guy knew how to ride/knew how to work on a bike/worked in a bike shop that parts like break pads are so cheap do we all realy think he would risk it...I dont..just hate to see all the blame on him and the riders out that day...shit happens and will again...Im sure there was somthing else that day in that turn...we where all telling each other about the cops out there maybe he thought he saw somthing and tried to slow up and gave it to much brake..maybe to much rear..we will never know,that same day I had a possim run out in front of me close to the same turn...that could have happened...but for now and from what has been said about the brakes on the bike in the yard they did not cause him to crash unless he grabbed a huge handfull in a panic out there...I dont know for sure but I thought I heard there where no skid marks,was he evean trying for brakes?????? like I said at a pretty good rate of speed out there not much braking is needed...unless your going 80-120 on skaggs....
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I ain't puttin' anything on Ollie one way or the other. I'm just sayin' "if".

And you keep saying 'he had breaks'. You can NOT know he had all his braking just by going to the wrecking yard and looking and squeezing. It ain't possible. Period. You'll never know unless you pull that braking system INTACT including fluid, pads, lines, calipers, and rotors, and put it on a similar bike and take it out and ride it like he may have been riding it. Or, do some serious expensive testing in a lab with the system intact. As I said before, you can NOT know if he had adequate braking. Period. All we have are reports of his saying his brakes weren't working properly.

Sorry for his passing, though.
 
Boundaries can only be found when they are pushed or tested through trial and error and are relative to the circumstances at hand. If you get into a situation and have to think “what was it that person said to do on the BARF page?” it is too late. You have to know what to do and how to react. Then all you can do is pray and hope you had the right reaction.

As everyone knows in a crash there can be hundreds of contributing and mitigating factors. On this forum there is only one person that has looked at the crash site and has access to the bike (Lee) and one person that looked at the post-mortem body, helmet, gloves, leathers, and boots (me). Most everyone else is using extended hearsay, excluding the very few persons that witnessed the aftermath.

Since a huge majority of the people discussing this have not seen the body, bike, safety equipment, and crash site, discussing it is superfluous. If someone had witnessed the crash and could definitively state what he did wrong or what went wrong, it might be worth discussing. There were no witnesses. The bickering and banter has not lead to any constructive suggestions to prevent further mishaps and has led to disharmonious feelings, accusations, and the questioning others competency between members.

The Sonoma County Coroner’s Office stated the preliminary cause of death was blunt force trauma to the back of the head, which indicates to me that he was not on the bike. The damage to the riding gear supports this conclusion, but it is still a speculation. Due to the minimal damage to the bike it is unlikely that it was rolled to spill him onto his back. With the continuation of motion the only plausible explanation is that he was thrown from or knocked off of the bike. These are my estimations based on the facts that I know and do not take his personal health into consideration.

If persons are using this discussion to make sense of their lives and losses, it will likely only add to their frustrations. Hopefully, it helped a few or at least gave them a momentary reprieve. When people “examine” their own lives, they often find what they already knew, but refused to acknowledge. However, humans are fickle and are prone to continue in the direction they are going, even when they know the answer they are searching for and its outcome.

I would again like to reiterate my preference to see this threads cessation.
 
Unless there is some mitigating factor that will determine if his estate gets a huge settlement, what difference does it make if his "breaks" worked or not? :confused

The departed may or may not have made a statement about the condition of his bike, but irregardless, he went down and died. Surely his legacy will remain intact no matter what the outcome.
 
I hope all the great people who knew ollie are doing better.....one thing from all this we know the world lost a great guy:ride:ride:ride Ride on ollie
 
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