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Stock Thread 2018

Sock thread 2018 !!!

Oh. Stocks.
Was wondering why Dubs was fronting for Beau.
Sock stocks?
 
AwakeNAlive said:
I looked up DBC. It invests in exchange traded futures on commodities.
Can someone explain what futures trading is?

I was hoping to find an index fund on precious metals and energy.

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Buy separate funds for metals and energy.

Futures are commodity based contracts that require a deposit to ensure the delivery of a fixed amount of a commodity at a given price, at a future date.

You might buy one contract to purchase ( or sell ) 100 tons of dates at $1200 a ton for a month from now. You will pay a premium for that. The premium depends on demand and the market. Once you have paid the premium you can buy 100 tons, one month from now, for $1200 a ton. If the price goes up to $2400 a ton, you still only have to pay $1200. Kind of like an option, you can do both sides of a deal.

The premiums require much larger deposits than options do. If your contract goes deep in the red ( out of the money) and it's a contract that you have to fill, you may get a margin call. That means you have to pungle up more money on the deposit. I got hit once with four margin calls in two hours on silver back in the seventies ( why I never trade commodities any more, lol)

As to DBC: What people don't understand is that commodity funds like this use futures. That means that something called Contago comes into play, and that everything is not entirely obvious. These funds issue K1s, not 1099s. When you do your taxes the issues are different and the tax form may scare the living fuck out of you.

I used to trade MLP's. One issued a 10k that indicated profits ( and writeoffs) were from three different states, which meant I had to file income tax returns in all three of those states. Be careful. It's very easy to products on the market that can have profound tax consequences. Usually it won't be an insult in dollars, but the paperwork will certainly be.
 
afm199 said:
Buy separate funds for metals and energy.

Futures are commodity based contracts that require a deposit to ensure the delivery of a fixed amount of a commodity at a given price, at a future date.

You might buy one contract to purchase ( or sell ) 100 tons of dates at $1200 a ton for a month from now. You will pay a premium for that. The premium depends on demand and the market. Once you have paid the premium you can buy 100 tons, one month from now, for $1200 a ton. If the price goes up to $2400 a ton, you still only have to pay $1200. Kind of like an option, you can do both sides of a deal.

The premiums require much larger deposits than options do. If your contract goes deep in the red ( out of the money) and it's a contract that you have to fill, you may get a margin call. That means you have to pungle up more money on the deposit. I got hit once with four margin calls in two hours on silver back in the seventies ( why I never trade commodities any more, lol)

As to DBC: What people don't understand is that commodity funds like this use futures. That means that something called Contago comes into play, and that everything is not entirely obvious. These funds issue K1s, not 1099s. When you do your taxes the issues are different and the tax form may scare the living fuck out of you.

I used to trade MLP's. One issued a 10k that indicated profits ( and writeoffs) were from three different states, which meant I had to file income tax returns in all three of those states. Be careful. It's very easy to products on the market that can have profound tax consequences. Usually it won't be an insult in dollars, but the paperwork will certainly be.
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the state of Texas has a very complicated tax return. complete it incorrectly, you think you might have a real steep tax liability. no thank you

if i am just looking for an index fund for precious metals, does that exist without the whole futures business?
 
AwakeNAlive said:
the state of Texas has a very complicated tax return. complete it incorrectly, you think you might have a real steep tax liability. no thank you

if i am just looking for an index fund for precious metals, does that exist without the whole futures business?
Click to expand...

Absolutely

One of many is USAA's Precious metals USAGX. The funds like this hold stock in companies that own commodities, like Newmont mining. No surprises.
 
Reli said:
That is why I only own such things in an IRA where I don't need to worry about paperwork.
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Yep, a great idea, though even in an IRA, UBIT can bite you in the ass
 
zanshin said:
Good stuff is being a prescient and early contrarian, anticipating the future flows of capital, rather than a status quo following always late to the game sheeple.

So here is a contrarian tip, thinking back to the person asking about CalPERS and what their $5000 will be worth in the distant retirement future.

The current US econo-political system that depends on the perpetual and geometrically increasing levels of debt, and the enforcement of the petrodollar arrangement through endless corruption, invasion, US-orchestrated terrorism, and war, is not sustainable.

The multi-decadal trade deficit is not sustainable. We cannot forever hand the world green paper while taking the fruits of their child labor factories.

The continued perverse accumulation of wealth into a very few hands is not sustainable. There is - ipso facto - no democracy anywhere.

So.. the obligations of CalPERS (and indeed the US) cannot be repaid on terms favorable to their counterparties. The only possible outcomes - as with every empire, every paper currency - are default and/or inflation.

If the elites desire crisis and blood in the streets (and to give Trump the finger) and to buy up the last shreds of assets around the country with their bottomless Fed-funded pockets, so that everyone is a renter, they will trigger a deflationary implosion that will wipe out all markets.

All that has to happen for this to occur, is for the Fed to stop buying Treasuries. There is no other buyer for this 2.8% over 30 years bullshit, that's already below the non-liar rate of inflation. If they stop monetizing debt, the everything-bubble is done and then we're in for a real fun time.

If the elites feel magnanimous toward the sheeple on their wall-less plantations (i.e. the bit outside the prison-industrial complex), they will just inflate like hell and everything will be "paid back". If you need to see what looks like, history is replete with nothing but these sorts of outcomes.

So, "new to CalPERS" poster, the answer is that you cannot realistically look to the old arrangements to take care of you in the future. People clinging to normalcy biases will experience the most pain in times of transition.
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Well said. Unfortunately, not many share your understanding of the matter at hand. It amazes me how few still recognize the importance - the opportunity - of precious metals and other commodities in times like these.

Chart-posting is always fun. It's also always relative to the time period offered. I'd like to use 2000 as my frame of reference today.

So far this century, gold, copper and silver have beat the general stock markets handily.

DOW: up 111%
S&P 500: up 75%
NASDAQ: up 37%

40ad80dcd3ce1a80e4eccd4715e2fae6.png


Gold: up 465%

gold_20_year_o_usd.png


Copper: up 390%

GraphEngine.ashx


Silver: up 320%

ag00-pres.gif


---------------------------------------------

And it's only the beginning. I expect the 'market prices' of these metals to rise much further - inversely proportional to the fall (reset) of this surreal zombie debt system. Admittedly, I've been saying this for 5-6 years now... and there's always the chance I'm wrong. However, the recent mania surrounding crypto-vapor - in concert with all the dire warning signs, including a bond market that looks ready to implode - tells me we are damn close.

To ignore things like physical gold and silver, along with certain paper instruments like shares of mining stocks, will - I believe - turn out to be a big mistake in the mid to long run.

The mainstream media and associated tentacles is set up to misinform and misdirect people while despicable globalists attempt the biggest wealth transfer in modern history.

All I can say is, take some time to research the perspective of those outside your usual/comfortable infospheres. Don't change your entire worldview overnight - just get exposed to different realms of thought and be objective. Do your own due diligence and think for yourselves.

Oh, almost forgot. This is a stock thread!

FNV
ABX
HL
AXU

Long and strong.
 
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redruM said:
Chart-posting is always fun. It's also always relative to the time period offered. I'd like to use 2000 as my frame of reference today.
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Now try using 2009 instead.

Remember when Peter Schiff said gold and the DOW would go to par, one ounce of gold would equal the number the DOW was trading at.
How happy do you think are those who sat around waiting for that to happen?
 
What is the difference between voo voog and voov?
 
VOO Vanguard S&P 500

VOOG Vanguard S&P 500 Growth ETF (grow faster than the avg)

VOOV Vanguard S&P 500 Value ETF (diamond in the rough)
 
Blankpage said:
Now try using 2009 instead.
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Ahh, you mean after the market crashed 54% from its peak high 2 years earlier in 2007? Sure bud - the select few who 1.) sustained no losses from the crash, and/or 2.) timed their entry into the stock market at the post-crash lows of 2009 are doing fantastic... in nominal terms only though. Inflation is a bitch!

Remember when Peter Schiff said gold and the DOW would go to par, one ounce of gold would equal the number the DOW was trading at.
Click to expand...

I do remember - and he still believes it will happen. He never gave an exact timeframe. But, whether this parity is achieved or not - so what? The value of gold has risen nearly 500% from when he first started telling people to buy it... and all the signs (if one knows how to decipher them) are pointing to much higher prices.

How happy do you think I was after sitting around waiting for that to happen?
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ftfy

Again, sorry that the performance of your (and others') metals investments failed to serve your (and others') time horizon. When you do proper due diligence, believe in something for all the right reasons, and have ample funds AND time to serve those beliefs - you stick with it.
 
redruM said:
Ahh, you mean after the market crashed 54% from its peak high 2 years earlier in 2007? Sure bud - the select few who 1.) sustained no losses from the crash, and/or 2.) timed their entry into the stock market at the post-crash lows of 2009 are doing fantastic... in nominal terms only though. Inflation is a bitch!



I do remember - and he still believes it will happen. He never gave an exact timeframe. But, whether this parity is achieved or not - so what? The value of gold has risen nearly 500% from when he first started telling people to buy it... and all the signs (if one knows how to decipher them) are pointing to much higher prices.



ftfy

Again, sorry that the performance of your (and others') metals investments failed to serve your (and others') time horizon. When you do proper due diligence, believe in something for all the right reasons, and have ample funds AND time to serve those beliefs - you stick with it.
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And what did Schiff say after that 54% crash? "Sell the DOW, buy gold". Wasn't the best choice was it.

You got to pick your start date so let me pick one also. Lets go back 30yrs to the end of 1988:
Gold then $500/oz, today $1336, 167% gain
DOW then 1938, today 25792, 1230% gain

You stick with your thing and keep waiting, you missed a lot of gains since though.
 
Blankpage said:
And what did Schiff say after that 54% crash? "Sell the DOW, buy gold". Wasn't the best choice was it.

You got to pick your start date so let me pick one also. Lets go back 30yrs to the end of 1988:
Gold then $500/oz, today $1336, 167% gain
DOW then 1938, today 25792, 1230% gain

You stick with your thing and keep waiting, you missed a lot of gains since though.
Click to expand...

That's a hefty gain but damn, gotta wait 30 years? That's a long time. I wanna put in $5,000 and have it be $10,000 in a year, maybe I'm not being realistic.
 
Blankpage said:
And what did Schiff say after that 54% crash? "Sell the DOW, buy gold". Wasn't the best choice was it.
Click to expand...

ur either being disingenuous or talking nonsense. regardless, i smell troll. in addition to gold, he was recommending dividend-paying foreign stocks, like vitasoy international, which is up 600% since 2009.

You got to pick your start date so let me pick one also. Lets go back 30yrs to the end of 1988:
Gold then $500/oz, today $1336, 167% gain
DOW then 1938, today 25792, 1230% gain
Click to expand...

If you're happy with nominal wealth over inflation-adjusted wealth just because the numbers are bigger, all the more power to you.
 
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