Street Racers, the show, who's watched it?

[Charles R]

Well yeah that's what I'm asking about. Track selection? Event timing? Stinkers at the top? What's the deal? #Seinfeld

Advertising dollars. Where to target marketing efforts. Whose sponsoring events, and what are their demands for continued sponsorship. Whose food is served at events... Etc. Etc.

Basically politics is everything behind the scenes of running a multi billion dollar enterprise that's dedicated to producing a "show" that's intended for a large public audience. (Same for football, baseball, NASCAR, whatever)

"How do i keep the audience i have now, and increase it in the future?" The answer is... "Politics"

 

[Mike95060]

Advertising dollars. Where to target marketing efforts. Whose sponsoring events, and what are their demands for continued sponsorship. Whose food is served at events... Etc. Etc.

Basically politics is everything behind the scenes of running a multi billion dollar enterprise that's dedicated to producing a "show" that's intended for a large public audience. (Same for football, baseball, NASCAR, whatever)

"How do i keep the audience i have now, and increase it in the future?" The answer is... "Politics"

OK. So is the NHRA hosing racers in the process of all of that? Are low dollar grass roots teams getting pushed out of big venues or prizes because sponsors have more power then they should?

 

[msethhunter]

How did that happen? Isn't drag racing pretty cut and dry who wins and who loses? Major rule fuckery afoot?

See my post above for what they wanted my brother to do to enter NHRA Promod. Larry Dixon lost his top Fuel license for building a top Fuel car from an old car with two seats, and last I heard he was banned from NHRA. Pro Stock just decided to not just DQ someone for crossing the center line, but now they care going to fine them as well (up to 15 points). I could go on, but the info is easily found on Google. Use a search string like "NHRA politics" or "NHRA drama".

 

[msethhunter]

OK. So is the NHRA hosing racers in the process of all of that? Are low dollar grass roots teams getting pushed out of big venues or prizes because sponsors have more power then they should?

Yes, they are. They are only allowing Pro Stock to be 8 cars at televised events now

 

[Charles R]

OK. So is the NHRA hosing racers in the process of all of that? Are low dollar grass roots teams getting pushed out of big venues or prizes because sponsors have more power then they should?

You tell me. I haven't been to a pro drag race event since Baylands closed.

 

[littlebeast]

I know of at least two dudes who built 1200+ hp daily driver cars in their garage on < $100,000 budgets in Texas. Did all the welding and shit themselves, did all the install work themselves, just bought the parts.

That being said, while they ran well under 10s 1/4s, they weren't rocking luxury toy haulers and there's a reason the cars had to double as daily drivers.

i spent my junior and senior year of high school in a teenagers vision of the doorstep of hell (omaha nebraska). the absolute only interesting thing to do was build and race cars - mostly late at night out on the mile roads between the cornfields outside of town. which was fun until the farmers showed up with shotguns, or the sheriff showed up and loaded all of our beer in the trunk of his car and told us to go home (fuckers treated us like a mobile liquor store). everyone built their own cars - and their entire lives revolved around them. if they could have fucked them, am pretty sure they would have had no use for girls. there was one dude in his mid twenties who always showed up with his car but never raced the backroads (he only raced at the track - and we were all well beneath his dignity lol). he had a heavily modded GTO that him and his dad built. it ran 9s 1/4’s (track timed). i hated every minute of living there except for that - and i came away from it with a strong addiction to the sound of awesome engines.

 

[72SBC]

Thanks for the info!

It sounds about where I thought it might, I know that some of those components don't come cheap and if they really are running 4,000 HP on Ryan's car there is major league forces going on that would require some very specially engineered parts that would be good for a few runs then have to be replaced due to the metal fatigue they'd be subjected to.

When they talk about the purses, especially the smaller ones like $16k I wonder how many of them spent that just to get to the race with all of the equipment, parts, gas and labor involved.

When I had my Nova it was roughly a $300 day after I loaded the car up, towed it to the track, raced it and unloaded it at home. This was a basic car when parts were a lot cheaper. I just bought a turbo for my new car and the unit alone was 4K. Prices on everything have went way up. I'm over 12K in just parts for my new motor not including the turbo and I still need about 3K to finish. For reference I built my last small block for roughly 12K in 2009/10. The cars you seen on the show are big money cars. The motors alone are 60-70K. They are $200k cars. The motor set up in the farm truck is like $30K.

 

[msethhunter]

When I had my Nova it was roughly a $300 day after I loaded the car up, towed it to the track, raced it and unloaded it at home. This was a basic car when parts were a lot cheaper. I just bought a turbo for my new car and the unit alone was 4K. Prices on everything have went way up. I'm over 12K in just parts for my new motor not including the turbo and I still need about 3K to finish. For reference I built my last small block for roughly 12K in 2009/10. The cars you seen on the show are big money cars. The motors alone are 60-70K. They are $200k cars. The motor set up in the farm truck is like $30K.

The last engine I built (SBC) cost me about $16k to be streetable at 600hp. This was in 2000'ish, and it was barely streetable. With the LS platform, 600hp is now mild in sheet form. Tech has come a long way in a short time. And we have the imports to thank for the leaps and bounds in turbo tech.

 

[72SBC]

The last engine I built (SBC) cost me about $16k to be streetable at 600hp. This was in 2000'ish, and it was barely streetable. With the LS platform, 600hp is now mild in sheet form. Tech has come a long way in a short time. And we have the imports to thank for the leaps and bounds in turbo tech.

Yeah but, a 600hp LS would be mopped by a 600hp SBC. Two completely different animals. Turbos have been around a long time though, quite a few small block race cars in indy/lemans had them in the 60's-70's and a few drag cars in the 70's-80's. Even nitrous really wasn't a thing until the 90's and there was a huge boom of turbo cars in the 80's, then early 90's the imports really got on board with it.

 

[Mike95060]

Yeah but, a 600hp LS would be mopped by a 600hp SBC. Two completely different animals. Turbos have been around a long time though, quite a few small block race cars in indy/lemans had them in the 60's-70's and a few drag cars in the 70's-80's. Even nitrous really wasn't a thing until the 90's and there was a huge boom of turbo cars in the 80's, then early 90's the imports really got on board with it.

Area under the curve?

 

[72SBC]

Area under the curve?

LS motors make no power until late in the rpm(stock or modified) Small cubic inch motors with big flow heads= no low end power. My old sbc n/a felt faster than my supercharged LS. (they actually make comparable power but, my n/a had more whp though)

 

[Mike95060]

LS motors make no power until late in the rpm(stock or modified) Small cubic inch motors with big flow heads= no low end power. My old sbc n/a felt faster than my supercharged LS. (they actually make comparable power but, my n/a had more whp though)

I was just looking at this.

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/en...numbers-from-our-stock-ls-cylinder-head-test/

So if we are talking daily driver steet car, where do you want to be makng power? 2500 to 5000 RPM? The tests above do show the LS making most of its power higher up in the RPM range.

Lemmie see if i can find some similar tests for a SBC.....

 

[clutchslip]

That show is a guilty pleasure of mine. I've been watching it since it came out.
Its like the WWE equivalent of racing.
The cars and drivers are legit. They have raced and competed in real competition and won. They can drive the shit out of those cars.
people don't realize just how fast those really are.
They are trapping over 150 in the 1/8th mile. No matter how you look at it that is moving. The one time big chief did the 1/4 mile he was just shy of the world record for a Pontiac at 6.42 @ 223mph

Interesting that you brought that up, because my biggest annoyance is that they only race 1/8th all the time. That isn't a race. That is like calling a walk to the refrigerator "exercise".

Anyway, as long as they kick Richard Rawlings ass, I am happy. Who does business with that egotistical, thieving dick, anyway? I watched him screw people on both ends of a deal, once, and I hated the guy. My favorite with him was when he made some kid cut his hair, while he and his partner had scruffy beards and obnoxious tattoos. Oh, lordy, it's hard to take him seriously.

 

[Charles R]

While i also agree that a true drag race is a quarter mile...i respect the choice to limit this show to an eighth. Much like the choice to limit top fuel to 1000 ft...

The cars just got too fast for the environment/concept that was first imagined over 50 years ago

 

[72SBC]

I was just looking at this.

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/en...numbers-from-our-stock-ls-cylinder-head-test/

So if we are talking daily driver steet car, where do you want to be makng power? 2500 to 5000 RPM? The tests above do show the LS making most of its power higher up in the RPM range.

Lemmie see if i can find some similar tests for a SBC.....

It all depends on what you're doing with the car really. That is the factor. Street car that you race or race car that you drive on the street? It's all about the goals you want. LS cars need to rev and have big cams to make power N/A, which kills drivability. Or you can have something like a 5.0 with dohc with variable cam timing to help with low end and still rev to the moon. Once power adders get involved it changes things obviously though.

 

[72SBC]

While i also agree that a true drag race is a quarter mile...i respect the choice to limit this show to an eighth. Much like the choice to limit top fuel to 1000 ft...

The cars just got too fast for the environment/concept that was first imagined over 50 years ago

It's not the show that limits it, they choose to race the 1/8 because it is like 300X easier on the motor lol. Those cars CAN"T race past the 1/8, they don't have the gear and they make too much power to last that long.

 

[msethhunter]

Yeah but, a 600hp LS would be mopped by a 600hp SBC. Two completely different animals. Turbos have been around a long time though, quite a few small block race cars in indy/lemans had them in the 60's-70's and a few drag cars in the 70's-80's. Even nitrous really wasn't a thing until the 90's and there was a huge boom of turbo cars in the 80's, then early 90's the imports really got on board with it.

My motor was only 385 ci (4.040X3.75). The key to making power in a stroked 350 is putting a long rod in it. I ran a 6" h-beam (the pin was up into the oil ring land). I had a huge solid roller cam and ported Victor Jr heads that were angle milled (made it a 20° motor, not typical 23°). It was an honest 600 how, not "yeah, I got a 600 hp SBC". It was internally balanced, so no damper or flex plate weights, and because of that, it ran smooth all the way to 8k (I had the light set at 7600, and an 8200 pill in the box). That kind of RPM is only possible with a long rod because piston speed becomes a serious issue at those bore/stroke/RPM's. It also involves a lot of clearancing the bottom end. With JE forged flat tops, it was at 11.1 to 1 after I cut the valve reliefs in the pistons if memory serves correct. I also had a Cheater plate on it, but bought Power shot solenoid covers (they barely fit, but they did), another street racers secret. I ran a separate fuel cell up front for the nitrous with 110 octane to keep it from detonating.

I told everyone at the street races it was a 355 with a solid cam and a Power shot wide open (Power shots were 125hp, Cheater's we're good for 250). All of this was in a 71 El Camino. I boxed the rear control arms, put a sway bar in the back, deleted the front sway bar G body 6 cyl spring (they store more energy to unload better), and had 28x11.50 ET Streets on the back. The convertor was a 3800rpm stall, with a 4.10 geared 10bolt with good parts to make it live, with a TH350 (400's Rob to much power). At LACR (R.I.P), it ran 12.0's, shutting it down at 1000ft (no cage), and I always squeezed it on the last pass of the night (10.90's). When I squeezed it, it would pull both wheels for about 30ft, and carry the left front for about 100ft. I could drive it the 70 miles there and back too. But I always put the "NT", since it was a purpose built street racer. Shit, I even still had a clutch fan (drilled and drained), and a column shift.

Man, I miss those days.

 

[72SBC]

My motor was only 385 ci (4.040X3.75). The key to making power in a stroked 350 is putting a long rod in it. I ran a 6" h-beam (the pin was up into the oil ring land). I had a huge solid roller cam and ported Victor Jr heads that were angle milled (made it a 20° motor, not typical 23°). It was an honest 600 how, not "yeah, I got a 600 hp SBC". It was internally balanced, so no damper or flex plate weights, and because of that, it ran smooth all the way to 8k (I had the light set at 7600, and an 8200 pill in the box). That kind of RPM is only possible with a long rod because piston speed becomes a serious issue at those bore/stroke/RPM's. It also involves a lot of clearancing the bottom end. With JE forged flat tops, it was at 11.1 to 1 after I cut the valve reliefs in the pistons if memory serves correct. I also had a Cheater plate on it, but bought Power shot solenoid covers (they barely fit, but they did), another street racers secret. I ran a separate fuel cell up front for the nitrous with 110 octane to keep it from detonating.

I told everyone at the street races it was a 355 with a solid cam and a Power shot wide open (Power shots were 125hp, Cheater's we're good for 250). All of this was in a 71 El Camino. I boxed the rear control arms, put a sway bar in the back, deleted the front sway bar G body 6 cyl spring (they store more energy to unload better), and had 28x11.50 ET Streets on the back. The convertor was a 3800rpm stall, with a 4.10 geared 10bolt with good parts to make it live, with a TH350 (400's Rob to much power). At LACR (R.I.P), it ran 12.0's, shutting it down at 1000ft (no cage), and I always squeezed it on the last pass of the night (10.90's). When I squeezed it, it would pull both wheels for about 30ft, and carry the left front for about 100ft. I could drive it the 70 miles there and back too. But I always put the "NT", since it was a purpose built street racer. Shit, I even still had a clutch fan (drilled and drained), and a column shift.

Man, I miss those days.

That's tight man, I had a 18* headed 396 sbc with 15-1 comp and a SV1 carb, made 600whp and ran 9.10@140+ in a 72 Nova, all motor. Hero run I could squeeze a 8.90 out of it if I ran the alky carb. It too was a 8K rpm motor. I did drive it around but a 10 gallon cell, and full cage really wasn't too friendly.

 

[msethhunter]

That's tight man, I had a 18* headed 396 sbc with 15-1 comp and a SV1 carb, made 600whp and ran 9.10@140+ in a 72 Nova, all motor. Hero run I could squeeze a 8.90 out of it if I ran the alky carb. It too was a 8K rpm motor. I did drive it around but a 10 gallon cell, and full cage really wasn't too friendly.

I almost put my motor in a '72 GT Vega, but the car was all original, and I just couldn't bring myself to hack it up. It was pristine. I probably would have been in the same ballpark as that, but with a serious weight advantage.

 

[72SBC]

I almost put my motor in a '72 GT Vega, but the car was all original, and I just couldn't bring myself to hack it up. It was pristine. I probably would have been in the same ballpark as that, but with a serious weight advantage.

My buddies Vega with a 406 and a 250 shot would go 8.20@160. Light cars are light lol.