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The debate about gear rages on

As a kid, in a no-seatbelt stationwagon, someone ran a redlight and I ended up biting the dashboard. Drove my front teeth up into my jaw.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, and it never counts unless it's part of a statistical study, from what I've read from some anal-ysts on teh BARF.

If there had been seatbelts and I was wearing one, then that wouldn't have happened.
 
Gary856 said:
Isn't the cultural change based on decades/mountains of data, analysis, science, as we move forward?
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Ah, I see. Point taken. When I read cultural I visualized word of mouth stories like most uninsured motorists are Mexicans when data shows otherwise.
 
In my observations while riding and driving, undergeared riders are usually very poor riders. If they get hurt and wreck themselves, that's fine, but the bad riding they do before they get injured promotes hostility towards riders and makes the rest of us non-idiot riders look bad. And that is definitely worth getting pissed off about.

Seen in the last week, all undergeared / no geared (except helmet) riders, all on supersports:

- Following way too close at freeway (70-75mph) speeds. way too close = 1 carlength behind
- Revving engine to redline whilst lanesharing, presumably for a "look at me" or "move your ass" effect (this is bullshit. if you can't laneshare correctly, don't do it and keep your revving-dumbass self off the freeway)
- "lanesharing" at freeway speeds between cars - and then *staying there*. (i don't have a problem with this, but staying next to the car you're sharing with at 75-80mph? grow balls please)


tis the season for badly geared riders and their bad riding. they are bad and they should feel bad. I don't wish death on anybody but if they do get hurt, hopefully they get hurt just enough to scare them off the bikes they're on, or into investing in gear, without fucking them up too much.
 
I'm an All The Gear Part of The Time or Part of The Gear Part of The Time or None of The Gear Part of The Time Rider.

It's all I can do to resist the urge to swat the newbie, clad in his/her safety vest, like a mosquito, who gives me the ATGATT speech.

Anybody that's lived in the South Western or Eastern USA knows heat, hot, drippy, humid heat. There, ATGATT is bound to cause heat stroke and subsequent crash.

Wear your gear if it makes you happy. Don't if you don't want to, understand though, that denim is quite vulnerable to asphalt and the next layer is skin.
 
If you are informed and make the conscious choice to ride without gear, have the health insurance to back it up and don't get on the cases of people who do wear gear, then whatever.

But then there are people who make fun of you for looking like a superhero, wearing long pants in the summer, wearing a full-face, etc and putter off in a sleeveless tee and flip-flops with the cheapest insurance on their bike they can have.

It's those ones I can't shrug my shoulders about because they're actively going around trying to convince others to engage in their irresponsible behavior.

Say a new rider hears, "Oh there's really not much more protection in a full-face helmet" and believes it. Or "nice power ranger jacket, fag!" They buy a half-shell, wear a hoodie, loose a side of their face and break both arms in a crash and become the next horror story you get told when someone finds out you ride a motorcycle.

People are free to decide what they are willing to give up in terms of protection vs. convenience but as long as they know, and they make sure others know it's a bad idea it's not a problem.


Everyone gave my Harley-riding pop pop shit for his full-face and leathers until he hit a bear up in Pennsylvania and came out at 60+ years old with nothing but a broken collarbone.
 
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The world is not black and white, it is many shades of all colors. No one rule will meet all conditions in all circumstances.
Certain gear should be mandatory like helmets but then it should be a personal option on what other gear you choose to wear for me full gear all the time.
To me there is more than enough scientific proof that helmets save lives, tax payer money and keeps insurance rates lower.
True it is there skin but if they leave behind children without a father it impacts more than just the individual who decides not to wear a helmet.
I have seen these kids after the death of their father and it is painful for the rest of their lives. In this case a simple helmet would have easily saved his life and probably just left him with minor injuries.
 
If it's hot, I have my chill-vest. Gallon-size ziplok bag, vest, add cold water, put on over T-shirt, bingo, core temp drops and rideability increases. :thumbup
 
Rider one says, I ride AGATT full leathers because I like a quick pace and hey shit happens... maybe I push too hard, or maybe something happens I can't avoid.
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Rider two says, I don't need to ride AGATT, maybe just a helmet, because I ride cautiously, within my limits, so I won't be involved in a crash. Nothing will happen to me.

Which of these do you suppose carries the most risk? Who is putting the odds most in their favor?

WWWobble
 
after a couple minor spills I realized how thankful I was that I had gear on. Those who ride without gear likely are not thinking about the possibilities of what might happen during their ride. Maybe they feel like they can actually control their own fate? :dunno
 
I wear full gear, every time, regardless of my plans. I can't plan on Mr. Idiot Cager being sufficiently aware of himself and his lifted truck or Prius or whatever AND being aware of me, so I plan for accidents, and doing my level best to make sure that accident, when it happens, incurs minimal damage to me.

Oh, and I don't do ricky-racer stuff, so my gear, tho definitely not new, is undamaged by any road surface. :teeth
 
I don't care if you don't wear gear. However, I will laugh at you and think you're stupid. :twofinger
 
I used to ride a road bike. I never thought of wearing a full-face helmet, full fingered gloves with armor, and padded leather (or cordura) jacket and pants. Maybe it could be more protective if I went down during a fast winding descent (speeds of 40-45MPH?) and hit a guard rail, lamp-post or tree, but how would I pedal in all that gear?
 
1footdown said:
I used to ride a road bike. I never thought of wearing a full-face helmet, full fingered gloves with armor, and padded leather (or cordura) jacket and pants. Maybe it could be more protective if I went down during a fast winding descent (speeds of 40-45MPH?) and hit a guard rail, lamp-post or tree, but how would I pedal in all that gear?
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You're not going 40-45 mph downhill on a road bicycle. Sorry.
 
ToraTora said:
Totally false--and yet even cops hold this attitude. We gear up because we recognize there are horrible drivers behind the wheels of Hondas out there that threaten our lives with a high level of incidence. Collect whatever other threats that you like in there with the Honda drivers--here I'll help you get started: Big ass black trucks, taxis, muni, Prius drivers, animals, spillage, street rails, painted surfaces, etc. There are plenty of solid reasons to wear gear from head to toe without the need of aggressiveness on the part of the rider. :ride

Lets deal with reasons to not wear gear. Anyone that believes this is a free country really isn't paying attention--so you can drop that argument because it just makes you look ignorant, or stupid. Which leads nicely into my next paragraph. :p

There are two reasons to not wear gear. Ignorance, and stupidity. You might have an argument with financial ability, but anyone that's tried to successfully pull that one off has lost--used/free gear abounds. People that don't know any better will be the ignorant lot, and those folks actually have potential to be better protected with something so simple as education. Which as seasoned riders is our responsibility to share. :cool

Stupid people will come up with the most amazingly creative reasons to not wear gear. It's hilarious to what extremes they will claim. You can lump in lazy with stupid as it equates to the same results. There truly is nothing that can be done with this group of people--arguing with them is an exercise in futility. It is best to just let them work their way out of the gene pool. Although it can be entertaining to make fun of them. :teeth

As to laws requiring people to gear up they are asinine, and clearly don't understand how society functions (unless of course you believe the man is employing these sorts of laws to disable society). If you consider how you learned to be responsible (questionable for some around here) it was when you were given responsibility. By electing helmet/seat belt/baby seat/ etc laws we remove personal responsibility, and place it at the hand of the enforcers. Now it's the cops responsibility for you to wear a helmet. These sorts of idiotic laws produce an irresponsible society. Do you really want to live in a place full of irresponsible people? :wtf

If you want to ride without gear that is your choice. Getting bent out of shape because people recognize you for what you are by not wearing gear is just confirming their observation--that is you are either ignorant, or stupid, and thankfully there's an easily available solution to that state. Gear up. :thumbup
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High pressure sales?
 
I'm wear MOTG MOTT. All of it when it's a fun ride, just helmet/jacket when it's only a commute. I've ridden without gloves twice, and was scared like shit.

I pose two ideas:

1)Wearing gear DEFINITELY makes me ride faster and more aggressively. Maybe it doesn't do that for everyone, but I feel so safe in my gear that I think nothing can happen to me, even though, clearly, a bit of leather and some CE armor don't protect you from that much except nasty road rash.

2)Gear helps prevent accidents as much as protect you when you have them. The added comfort reduces stress over long distances. Hell, riding without gloves in San Francisco chills my fingers off so I can barely use the brake. Riding faster than 20mph without a full-face helmet drives tears into my eyes and has me blinking twice a second when gnats hit my face. Boots let me use the back brake and shifter much more secure than even tennis shoes. Gloves let me use the clutch, brake and throttle much more safely since I never slip and don't have to be afraid to crush my fingers or anything, even though I'm slightly more accurate on the throttle without gloves on.

So for me, gear is mostly about feeling good about riding and preventing errors on my side, induced by stress, fear or the environment. I don't think even GP gear will save your life in one of those typical scenarios where a soccer mom runs a red light and t-bones a motorcyclist who had right of way. Yea, it'll protect you when sliding and from some broken bones, but it's still very easy to die on a motorcycle.
 
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