The Electric Motorcycle Thread

[MikeL]

Short video from TechCrunch about Zero that Premiered yesterday:

[YOUTUBE]dLH1T6Rod_s[/YOUTUBE]

 

[HadesOmega]

Hmm interesting can Zero still be considered a startup? They've been around for like a decade now.

 

[HadesOmega]

OH SHIT the day is coming! Kawasaki is building an EV motorcycle they're not playing around they mention it along with their supercharged motorcycles. Japanese electric motorcycle will become a reality in the near future!

From the video I gather that it has DC fast charge capability because they show a CHADEMO port. It's going to a have gears and it has a separate regen thumb throttle.

[youtube]DyA5jVUCBbU[/youtube]

 

[mrzuzzo]

Hmm interesting can Zero still be considered a startup? They've been around for like a decade now.

Yeah they aren't a startup. They have already released a few generations of bikes at this point.

OH SHIT the day is coming! Kawasaki is building an EV motorcycle they're not playing around they mention it along with their supercharged motorcycles. Japanese electric motorcycle will become a reality in the near future!

From the video I gather that it has DC fast charge capability because they show a CHADEMO port. It's going to a have gears and it has a separate regen thumb throttle.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/DyA5jVUCBbU[/youtube]

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[HadesOmega]

Got these pictures from their facebook. It looks like they are going with the Brammo philosophy and have it be similar to a traditional motorcycle as possible.

Looks like it's based off a smaller Ninja. It definitely very stealthy looking. Small brakes but you don't need big stoppers if you've got good regen.

You can see CHADEMO port right here so it is capable of DC fastcharging!

It has a small radiator also so something is liquid or oil cooled on the bike. You can see some kind of sight glass on the bottom right also.

Here is the powertrain. Looks like it has a 4 speed transmission that's about the right amount of gears.

This is a picture of the master safety plug. It reminds me of the one on the Toyota Prius battery.

These look like some kind of diagnostic ports on top of the CHADEMO port.

 

[R3DS!X]

Interesting Kawasaki. Based on the wheels and swing arm, I'm guessing 30-40hp?

The 60% increase in battery capacity from Energica while saving weight is pretty impressive.

 

[HadesOmega]

I don't know what happened to the Kymco Supernex but Kymco showed off another bike the RevoNex. I guess it's a naked version of the Kymco Supernex. 6 speed transmission with quick up and downshift. The said the first gear goes up to 50mph that's very similar to the Empulse, around town I'm usually riding in 1st gear.

https://electrek.co/2019/11/05/kymco-revonex-electric-motorcycle-unveiled-gearbox/

[YOUTUBE]SHVahtvZcHU[/YOUTUBE]

 

[HadesOmega]

RevoNex Press COnference starts at 1:05

Looks like it has ride modes and TCS. Spec seems similar to SR/F. Available 2021. It looks like they axe'd the sportbike for naked =( I guess they are trying to play it safe.

[YOUTUBE]Vj1QaJFHFEk[/YOUTUBE]


This is the video they played at the press conference

[youtube]BFCs4NlVggI[/youtube]

 

[Killroy1999]

Got these pictures from their facebook. It looks like they are going with the Brammo philosophy and have it be similar to a traditional motorcycle as possible.

Looks like it's based off a smaller Ninja. It definitely very stealthy looking. Small brakes but you don't need big stoppers if you've got good regen.

I'm not sure if I love the idea of a transmission on a electric motorcycle. Many people - even good riders- could benefit from no shifting and no clutching. My Zero is great in traffic because I dont have to mess with clutching and shifting.

 

[bigpoppa]

I'm not sure if I love the idea of a transmission on a electric motorcycle. Many people - even good riders- could benefit from no shifting and no clutching. My Zero is great in traffic because I dont have to mess with clutching and shifting.

Agreed...I'm finding I can focus much better on throttle control without having to worry about a clutch.

What I do miss though is assigning gears to corners I know. i.e. 2nd gear corner, 3rd gear corner, etc. I'm trying to get used to thinking about corner speed only now instead of gearing.

 

[HadesOmega]

What I like about the gears is you can sorta memorize what gear you should be in before you hit a corner. Like at Laguna Seca I know I need to downshift X amount and regen and brake before such and such corner.

A transmission is more efficient also, you can have a more efficient motor and have a smaller motor as opposed a very large one. Also motors have a most efficient RPM range, they don't like to be lugged, it draws more load. With a gearbox you can keep it in that efficient rev range, that's what the greenzone is on the tach on the Empulse is.

Also you can maximize or tune your regen with a gearbox like on an ICE bike. The more it revs the more regen you'll get because the lower your RPMs are the less regen you'll get.

Around town under like 50mph I could leave it in 1st or 2nd gear. You can put it in any gear you and want it'll go but if you want maximum acceleration start from the lower gears.

What I don't like about the transmission is there really isn't an audible way to tell when to shift. The motor doesn't really get louder as you go up in the RPMs. I wish my Empulse had a shift a light for that reason. You can't really feel it either it just kinda feels the same throughout the whole revrange it just goes. Also it's more complex more stuff to break etc...

Hopefully these multi-speed electric bikes come with a good gear box. I know the SuperNex and RevoNex have quickshifting.

I feel with just a direct throttle you have to be more critical of how you twist the throttle is what I'm finding out on my Light Bee.

Also I only use the clutch for downshifting on the Empulse. It will upshift fine like you would on an ICE bike by unloading the motor first.

 

[Tom G]

College has been a few decades but with a proper inverter you can control an asynchronous traction motor all the way from 0 to max rpm, when the motor will disintegrate. That is the way UP and BNSF do it. There is no gearbox involved, it would just break. Maybe the Chinese haven't figured out yet how to build a proper control circuit?

 

[HadesOmega]

College has been a few decades but with a proper inverter you can control an asynchronous traction motor all the way from 0 to max rpm, when the motor will disintegrate. That is the way UP and BNSF do it. There is no gearbox involved, it would just break. Maybe the Chinese haven't figured out yet how to build a proper control circuit?

I don't know what you mean about the Chinese but many motorcycle use a gearbox or some type of gear system like these bikes:
Energicas (Italian)
Empulse (USA)
Light Bee (Chinese)
Strike (USA)
Storm Bee (Chinese)

and I'm sure there are many more

It's all about finding a motors range of operation to meet the speeds you need. They figure your probably not going faster than X speed so they gear it to top out or close to top out at X speed. You need someway to transmit power and gears are the best way to do it. Why do you think you don't see hub motors on motorcycles? (at least for now) They can only spin so fast.

 

[Tom G]

You use a belt to transfer the power to the rear wheel. 6-speed is not needed, single speed is sufficient, the inverter will take care of the rest (frequency, voltage). The MTBS still have gears so you can pedal uphill, the motor is officially only supporting the effort. Chevrolet and Tesla don't need gears either.

 

[mrzuzzo]

Energicas have gears?

 

[HadesOmega]

Than why are there motorcycles with gearboxes? There is an efficient range of RPM for every motor. Motors don't rev to the moon. Maybe with cars is different because you have so much space to work with but on motorcycles you only have so much room to work with so you can't put this big honkin motor in. Plus it adds weight to the bike. With gearing you can have a smaller motor.

On a bicycle you can have a hub motor and it just pull the bike along. If you have a mid drive though where the motor is connected to the drivetrain you can utilize different gearing. I built my own ebike before with a mid drive and it's much more efficient with gears. A hub motor is efficient aonly t a certain RPMs. With a mid drive you can use lower gears for climbing and a higher gear for more top speed.

Here's what the Energica's motor looks like. I took this at WSBK 2018. It has gearset inside connected to the motor to get get the most efficiency out of the motor. It's only 1 speed but they use a gearbox to get the output shaft to spin at the RPMs you would want to get the speeds you want.

Here is how Sur Ron does it with the Light Bee. Instead of using a gearbox they use a belt for a primary drive, then there is a driveshaft that goes to the a secondary drive chain.

I guess Energica and Sur Ron don't know what their doing because they have gearing...

Zero's don't use a gearset is probably why they have run these big honkin sprockets

 

[Tom G]

When we talk about gears on a gasoline powered motorcycle we typically mean 6 speed. Of course the power needs to be transmitted from the motor to the wheel. Which is using a chain or belt or on my bike a shaft. But your Sur Ron is still single speed so to speak, not 6-speed. Just like Tesla or locomotives.

 

[HadesOmega]

Well it's either you have a big motor that has a wider RPM range or you have smaller motor with gears. Its all dependent on the motor you choose and the speeds or purpose you will using the vehicle for.

The only thing about the Zero's direct drive I like is it doesn't require oil changes and chain lube I guess.

And I do wish my Sur Ron has more speeds that little motor struggles a lot on hillclimbs.

 

[Map8]

Kawasaki recently posted this video (which is unburdened by any details ) about a potential electric street bike. There is some feel good marketing speak and very limited footage of a test mule with what looks like Ninja 300 bodywork on a test track.

Anyone know when the Big Four are going to release an electric street bike? Something more than a scooter?

[youtube]DyA5jVUCBbU[/youtube]

 

[gixxerjeff]

Anyone know when the Big Four are going to release an electric street bike? Something more than a scooter?

My guess would be as soon as someone gets this whole *battery thing* figured out.