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Thoughts on AWD cars?

If you're under 30, I'd say Mazdaspeed 3 (previous version ~2009, not the ugly smiley-faced one). If you're over 30, try a GTI. The MS3 is faster and handles better, but rides much rougher. The GTI isn't as fast and doesn't corner quite as well, but is generally a more calm, dare I say more grown-up car.

Not sure why you might want AWD. If you're heading toward a ditch, it's not going to help you. If you're already in a ditch, it's not going to help you. You're better off spending the extra money on better tires. (FWIW, I'm from Michigan and drove my FWD MS3 and a few GTIs through several winters without issues.)
 
While the Mazdaspeed 3 is a nice car, it has a shit ton of torque-steer. So much that you CANNOT put the power down in many turns. The Speed3 and the Cobalt SS are as expensive to insure as an STi. The Cobalt SS is damn fast though, like faster than an STi fast.

If insurance cost isn't a big deal (call your agent now), look for a 2007 STi Limited. If you want a new(ish) AWD car, look towards the WRX. Anything with a turbo is going to cost more to insure than a non-turbo version of the same car. You may just want a newer Imprezza.
 
I'm on STI #2, sold the EVO X and I'm about to get rid of a Cooper S and replace it with an S2000 as a beater commuter.

The Cooper S handles nicely but the thing is geared so poorly for how heavy and underpowered it is, it drives me nutter butters. I absolutely loathe the traction control in this car.
The EVO X was fun, looked more stylish than the pig-faced STI and was faster on dry pavement but I wasn't happy with overall fit & finish and performance in low traction conditions wasn't as good as the Subie--which is silly for a dedicated ski trip vehicle.
The STI is not without shortcomings--poor gas mileage (21 mpg combined), underwhelming steering feedback which exacerbates the tendency to understeer at turn in on low traction conditions--but the thing has been rock solid in terms of reliability and overall performance.
 
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palada said:
If you're under 30, I'd say Mazdaspeed 3 (previous version ~2009, not the ugly smiley-faced one). If you're over 30, try a GTI. The MS3 is faster and handles better, but rides much rougher. The GTI isn't as fast and doesn't corner quite as well, but is generally a more calm, dare I say more grown-up car.

Not sure why you might want AWD. If you're heading toward a ditch, it's not going to help you. If you're already in a ditch, it's not going to help you. You're better off spending the extra money on better tires. (FWIW, I'm from Michigan and drove my FWD MS3 and a few GTIs through several winters without issues.)
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Curious about the under/over 30 part? A GTI could be in the running. I'd have to research those since I've never really looked at those.

And for the record, as I don't hope to find myself in that situation again, but yea, I've dropped my tire in a . . . not sure how to describe it other than a ditch/trench and the AWD helped to wiggle our way out. Wouldn't have been able to do that in either a FWD or RWD.
 
racerXgirl said:
Actually yes! Have always liked those cars. Difference between first gens and others?
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Gen 2 is way out of your price range. It also has ~150 MORE horsepower.

Early gen 1 has some rwae differential issues that can be fixed, but the later ones it already is
 
Enchanter said:
While the Mazdaspeed 3 is a nice car, it has a shit ton of torque-steer. So much that you CANNOT put the power down in many turns. The Speed3 and the Cobalt SS are as expensive to insure as an STi. The Cobalt SS is damn fast though, like faster than an STi fast.

If insurance cost isn't a big deal (call your agent now), look for a 2007 STi Limited. If you want a new(ish) AWD car, look towards the WRX. Anything with a turbo is going to cost more to insure than a non-turbo version of the same car. You may just want a newer Imprezza.
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You would go with the '07 with potential issues rather than the '06?
 
We don't live in the snow belt and no matter how many times a year you think you'll drive to Tahoe, AWD is not needed in the grand scheme of everything as it pertains to living in the bay area. Save yourself some money and headache.
 
racerXgirl said:
Curious about the under/over 30 part?
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Depends on your personality for sure, but I was 35 when I had the MS3 and while it was mostly fun to drive, it was a little more...harsh than the GTI. It rode rougher (I owned the MS3 when I was living in the Detroit area, and the road surfaces there are much worse than here, so maybe the rougher ride is a non-issue?), there was more road noise in the cabin, it didn't shift quite as nicely, the clutch was stiffer, and probably some other little things. In my 20s, it wouldn't have bothered me, but it does now. Might not matter to you.

The MS3 will spank the GTI in any performance category, but you might find it more exhausting to drive.
 
Enchanter said:
While the Mazdaspeed 3 is a nice car, it has a shit ton of torque-steer. So much that you CANNOT put the power down in many turns.
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It's not that you cannot put down the power, but you damn sure better be holding tight when you do! :laughing
 
louemc said:
Really hard to beat Subaru in AWD dept. They have the best drive-train, both in the low center of gravity or roll center...and the viscus couplings to the wheels so they can stay hooked up, while turning different speeds in corner arcs.
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wrong.

subaru drivetrains are fragile, less responsive along the way at every step along the upgrade path, more expensive to modify in both parts and especially labor, and love understeer. mitsu engine significantly more robust in stock from, able to handle 400 ft lb of torque at the wheel with the stock bottom end and stock clutch. properly tuned, they don't break. heck, they have to have a tune quite out of whack to break, regardless. mine is a 450whp daily driver that uses the same setup for track time in open passing groups. i would never say the sti is at a comparable level, from driver involvement, feedback at the wheel and seat, the way the way the stock turbo recovers boost between shifts, or reliability once putting more power through OEM components. i have had enough time both at the controls and in ride alongs in scenarios that allowed real learning/exploring to see what well setup cars can do. the subaru platforms always feel like i'm trying to drive around a fundamental deficiency. the evo is so much more intuitive, so so so much more fun.

subaru also loves to understeer. slower steering rack, horrible seats. that car would have been the leader if it was the only one in the segment in america. then the evo came along (thanks to the market adoption of the wrx) and made the sti irrelevant. check the motor trend 2007 best handling car in america selction, or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Seuvqhrsjwo

in the end, given any amount of money you can make one car faster than another. given the same amount of money, and evo will win every time. will break down less often. and most importantly, be so much more fun.
 
now, to the statement about the sti somehow being superior to the evo in snow - the stock wheels on the evo x are 18s with summer tires. did you drive in snow with proper tires or stock?
 
racerXgirl said:
So, I'm thinking about changing out my car. I currently have a Subaru Impreza RS and just looking at what other cars I could be thinking about.
I love my AWD and have always eyeballed BMW XI's and of course an STI, but is there anything else that I should be considering? I'd like something that is pretty reliable, not cost too much in maintenance, and MAYBE in the $25 - $30K range.

Thoughts?
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as you can tell, i think STi is a waste of time. if you want a car that prioritizes 1. hard driving (and can live with lots of feedback the further down the road you go with it in terms of mods) 2. fits 5 people 3. low maintenance (assuming you don't break it due to hard driving activies) the evo is absolutely the way to go. simpler, easier, far more effective car.

if you need a car with more practicality, and don't want to pay the tons-o-cash that a early 20s person will pay for sports car insurance, sounds like you need a wagon as it will have best cargo capacity and be acceptable from a driving perspective. wrx wagon insurance will still be the worst, but probably not much worse than an MS3 or Focus ST, and give you awd flexibility if you need it. a downgrade from those would the lancer raliart sportback, which in stock form is not as dynamic as any of those 3, but should also be the best in pricing (sale price, insurance, maintenance).
 
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I'm going to say that AWD is useful, especially in the wet, take my word for it she drives more aggressively than most guys. I'm not a fan of Subarus road noise either.

Does anyone have expierence with the Acura TL awd
 
Silence said:
Continental DWS on both and ownership timing was concurrent.
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interesting. i've been lucky, snow tires in real snow, and the evo to boot. was climbing the hills that range rovers were sliding down, backwards.

i never liked all season tires for anything other than eating up mileage. i thought they would be fun for sliding around in the snow, they were meh.
 
:love

welcome home, racerxgirl...


as per topic, gotta say which AWD system on which car makes a difference...

on the GTR, one of the most insane cars i was ever in, it is phenomenal and beyond my threshold...on the TL AWD, meh...it gets rather 'bland' ....on some cars like the sti, while nice it can give a false sense of confidence...i think subaru system also make you have to replace all of the tires if one of them gets a flat..:dunno truth or myth, dunno..

all others on suv, there are some sophisticated ones like in the mdx and some very cheap but effective ones like in the crv..

read in magazine that most don't need awd..just good tires...
 
cleverusername said:
interesting. i've been lucky, snow tires in real snow, and the evo to boot. was climbing the hills that range rovers were sliding down, backwards.

i never liked all season tires for anything other than eating up mileage. i thought they would be fun for sliding around in the snow, they were meh.
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When I only had the STI, I used to have dedicated wheelsets for summer performance and snow tires (Blizzak) but it just became unmanageable with multiple vehicles. :dunno
 
V4 said:
i think subaru system also make you have to replace all of the tires if one of them gets a flat..:dunno truth or myth, dunno..
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If the tires have plenty of life left in them, you can always get the replacement tire shaved down to match the remaining tires.
 
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