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Took a test ride on a Zero DS electric bike

GPzPop said:
Originally Posted by ScottRNelson View Post

But how do you measure the feelings of self-righteousness as you're saving the planet by REMOTELY burning fossil fuel?

ftfy
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Would be funny...if it were true (okay, it's still funny). Even if 100% of our power in the Bay Area came from the dirtiest, most polluting power plants, EVs would still produce fewer emissions per mile traveled because they are 2-3 times as efficient as internal combustion, even correcting for losses in transmission. But the reality is less than half comes from fossil fuel, and almost all of that is from natural gas, which burns pretty clean.

This argument, along with the "wind power kills birds," "electric vehicles and hybrids take more resources to build" and "batteries will never be cheap enough" arguments use gerrymandered and outdated information so those who don't like the idea that the world is changing can pretend they've won arguments.

But one thing posters are missing: EVs are a lot fun to drive/ride, as well as almost no cost to operate compared to ICE vehicles. Some of you have obviously never ridden/driven a current-model EV, and given the rapid improvements and innovation with these products that's like me saying all motorcycles suck because I rode a 1983 Suzuki Madura and it was an ugly, slow, bad handling POS. I would sound like an idiot. And in a few years, so will they.
 
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^^^ This.

Internal combustion engines are terribly inefficient. They are also a PITA to maintain. For us gear heads, this is a labor of love, but for the general public, the future is electric.

I was lucky enough to take a test drive in a Tesla my friend bought and it was eye-opening. I truly believe that is the future.

I still enjoy rowing the gears/heel-toe in my car, and riding my motorcycle, but I believe we are in the last bastion era of these arcane technologies now.
 
mean dad said:
With a 4 mile commute, I am in the market for an electric moto. Thanks for the write up.
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Meandad... you should check out my electric bicycle. for only 4 miles or even 40 miles, a bicycle might be plenty. it is definitely plenty in SF. it also costs less than $2k easy.

the other advantages:
quiet
no maintenance. just plug it in to charge nightly just like your cellphone.
no oil changes. no spark plugs. no gasoline. no grimey chains.
anywhere from 40 to 60 mile range. might be more.
no insurance
no registration fee
no parking fees
park anywhere there is a sign post or a parking meter
ride on sidewalks
ride in parks
new bike lanes planned all over
35mph on level ground
no ATGATT nazis. no gloves, boots, pants, jacket, blah blah blah. just get on and go.

picture of mine below, converted from an old bicycle. i have 300 miles so far in the city. it poses just fine in front of starbucks. :D

20130901_095556.jpg
 
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Yeah, the no maintenance-thing is a big chunk of the selling point for the zero to me. Particularly for a commuter. No oil, oil filters, spark plugs to buy and change. No valves to adjust. It's rubber-band powered so there's no chain maintenance. Basically, it's just tires and brake pads.

The electric obviously saves you some significant bucks over gas but, that's just a bonus. Never having to go to a gas station again w/ a bike that'll be topped up every morning when I climb onto it is just cool!

For someone like me who has to dump a couple gallons of premium in the tank every day it would save me ~$8/day on gas or ~$184 in the month of October. That's a bike payment.
 
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I thinking of one of these for an urban commuter/runabout myself, thanks for the write up. Trying to balance it out against just getting a cheap dualsport though, same price and more uses. Plus I'd need to figure out a noisemaker.
 
At the risk of being labeled a squid, will it wheelie? :nerd
 
1098504_10151752904836380_1651174813_n.jpg


I always see this LEO demo bike around Campbell. I was impressed at how good they look in person. I would consider the Zero S.

2013_zero-s_product-page_overview-image.jpg


The light acceleration off the line is the result of the simplicity of the 1 gear transmission. Brammo has a 6 gear. A electric vehicle should be able to fly off the line and all the way up to top speed like a 1 gear Tesla Model S kicks the ass of a BMW M5, but I think Zero has a little to learn from Tesla.

There won't be a single drive train solution, but EVs are going to be a big part of it. They are so simple and cheap to fuel.
 
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dont think the demographic would have to be rich. a friend got the empulse and he's a Pastor, dont think they make piles of cash.

you dont buy any vehicle to "pay for its self". such a lame way to look at it. a vehicle is a tool. does the tool fit your needs?

for most of us on BARF the tool/toy line becomes blurry. we have bikes because we enjoy them. they are no longer just tools to get to work with.

I'm thinking about getting an Ebike. sell the IC used for commuting and the occasional trip up 9. add another solar panel to the side of the house. a few more batteries to store the charge. plug it in at night. be fun to set it up. will it pay for its self? dont know. dont care.
 
2013ZeroSMotorcycleReview11.jpg


ircsmith said:
dont think the demographic would have to be rich. a friend got the empulse and he's a Pastor, dont think they make piles of cash.

you dont buy any vehicle to "pay for its self". such a lame way to look at it. a vehicle is a tool. does the tool fit your needs?

for most of us on BARF the tool/toy line becomes blurry. we have bikes because we enjoy them. they are no longer just tools to get to work with.

I'm thinking about getting an Ebike. sell the IC used for commuting and the occasional trip up 9. add another solar panel to the side of the house. a few more batteries to store the charge. plug it in at night. be fun to set it up. will it pay for its self? dont know. dont care.
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Depending on how you look at it, a Zero can "pay for itself," or at least the price difference between it and a gas moto in 3-5 years. If you opted for a smaller battery (which will 'only' go 40-50 miles at 60 mph) it could be in as little as a year and a half to two years.

Here's what I wrote on the subject of an electric motorcycle paying for itself:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/796/15887/Motorcycle-Article/2013-Zero-S-Motorcycle-Review.aspx

The Zero S rings in at $13,995 for the ZF8.5, $15,995 for the 11.4 I rode. In California, state and federal tax credits pay you back about $2400, but you're still looking at a premium of about $6000 if you figure (like I did) that the Zero offers performance pretty equal to a 650 Twin like the Honda NC700X or Suzuki SFV650, at least in the parts of the powerband where we spend most of our time. You can see that difference two ways: a guilt tax paid only by nerds and eco-nuts or a pre-payment of fuel costs for a dedicated moto-commuter who knows his or her commute will be the same distance every day. An SFV650 returning 43 mpg, ridden 15,000 miles a year, will use $6000 of $4/gallon gasoline in about four years – but that doesn't count the oil changes and other maintenance the bike will require in that time. My own daily rider – a 2010 Triumph Street Triple R – is thirstier, bringing the break-even point for a gashog like me to three years.

The Zero S (and by extension, the Zero DS, which is similar, except with shorter gearing, more suspension travel and a 19-inch front wheel) is now a mature product that doesn't need a lot of excuses. It's a functional solution for the roughly 185,000 Americans who commute by motorcycle but travel less than 30 minutes each way.
 
ircsmith said:
dont think the demographic would have to be rich. a friend got the empulse and he's a Pastor, dont think they make piles of cash.

you dont buy any vehicle to "pay for its self". such a lame way to look at it. a vehicle is a tool. does the tool fit your needs?
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Other than the fuel economy savings, please explain to me how that Zero S is the 'best tool' for any job?

For the same money, I can get a bike that's more comfortable, way faster, handles and brakes better, makes a noise that get's me noticed in traffic, and can also do longer rides, track days, and some light touring. I'm confused as to how anyone can argue that the real value proposition for these eBike extends beyond fuel economy.
 
Archimedes said:
Other than the fuel economy savings, please explain to me how that Zero S is the 'best tool' for any job?

For the same money, I can get a bike that's more comfortable, way faster, handles and brakes better, makes a noise that get's me noticed in traffic, and can also do longer rides, track days, and some light touring. I'm confused as to how anyone can argue that the real value proposition for these eBike extends beyond fuel economy.
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So you think loud pipes save lives?
 
Electric vehicles are only practicle for shorter around town/commuting type trips where having it unavailable for long periods of time to recharge doesn't cause an inconvenience. Until they can greatly extend the range AND come up with a way to put a full charge in them in the same time that it takes to fuel up a conventional vehicle, the will never be mainstream. They have a niche, but a small one at this time.
 
CannonFodder said:
Interesting....I would think since it is electric you have the same pull down low as you do at higher speed.
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There was a Cycle World article comparing the latest Brammo and Zero electric bikes. The Brammo has gears, so starts out much quicker from a stop, but once up to about 30 mph, the Zero is stronger.

I'm pretty sure it would save me a bunch on tires not being able to take off quickly from a stop. :laughing
 
Archimedes said:
I'm confused as to how anyone can argue that the real value proposition for these eBike extends beyond fuel economy.
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It depends on the category. For us (MX/SMR), the lack of maintenance makes a pretty big difference - 3-5 hour oil changes, 20 hour top-ends, and 50 hour rebuilds add up fast, not to mention the value of your time spent riding vs wrenching. Some folks love to wrench... those aren't our customer.

The other value is that almost every rider we've had on the bike is faster, safer, and more in control on our bike vs a gas SM. The journalists we've had on the bike cut laps at Sonoma 4 seconds faster on the electric on DOT tires than the gasser on slicks, and top racers run times that are about the same as gas (again despite the tires) and comment on how much less tiring the electric is.

Archimedes said:
Not by a long shot, but I don't think a totally silent bike is a 'safety advantage'. For the rider or pedestrians.
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I agree. Our bike, the Brammo, and the Mission all have distinctive high-pitched whirring sounds that can be heard at least a block away. Sounds like a fucking Tie fighter, and it's enough to get a pedestrian or trail user's attention. I'll admit it CAN sneak up on you at the track in the midst of thumpers with race pipes.

ST Guy said:
Electric vehicles are only practicle for shorter around town/commuting type trips where having it unavailable for long periods of time to recharge doesn't cause an inconvenience. Until they can greatly extend the range AND come up with a way to put a full charge in them in the same time that it takes to fuel up a conventional vehicle, the will never be mainstream. They have a niche, but a small one at this time.
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Again, agreed, though short distance trips aren't niche for the rest of the world. They're the norm. In the US where motos are mostly recreational vehicles, you're right. I expect that most of our American customers, our bikes will be second (or 3rd or 8th) bikes in their garages.
 
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