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Tornado alley bedroom community building codes

What's the issue in the first post exactly? That the people involved weren't informed on how to act in a weather emergency or that the buildings were insufficient and codes should be created to make buildings withstand storms of that magnitude?
 
A neighborhood of houses built to resist tornadoes would look like the Maginot Line. The only antidotes are training and government-underwritten insurance.
 
DucatiHoney said:
What's the issue in the first post exactly? That the people involved weren't informed on how to act in a weather emergency or that the buildings were insufficient and codes should be created to make buildings withstand storms of that magnitude?
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Building homes to withstand that magnitude of energy is not going to happen. Do the math sometime on how much pressure a 200 mph gust imparts to a 20 by 20 wall. A 4 by 5 window at 100 mph will get 500 pounds of pressure on it. Then take into consideration the many variations that happen as windows shatter and partial vacuum forms in various areas and over pressure in others. It's not that it can't be done, it just can't be done affordably.

BTW, that's less than a couple PSI per square foot. Five PSI per square foot will level a brick house ( from the handbook on nuclear weapons).
 
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It's been 15 years, but if I remember my meteorology classes correctly, a very severe tornado is capable of producing ~4-6 psi of overpressure as it passes.

You'd need to buy one of these:

http://www.missilebases.com/properties

I actually toured this place in 1998 (at the time, it was listed for $110k IIRC):

http://www.missilebases.com/russellkansas

(Unfortunately, it's worth even less to me than that now that they cleaned all the raceway and relay racks out. :laughing)

From memory, like most of the AT&T L4 facilities, that was hardened to at least 12 psi. I assume you can derate it a bit for age.
 
afm199 said:
Building homes to withstand that magnitude of energy is not going to happen. Do the math sometime on how much pressure a 200 mph gust imparts to a 20 by 20 wall. A 4 by 5 window at 100 mph will get 500 pounds of pressure on it. Then take into consideration the many variations that happen as windows shatter and partial vacuum forms in various areas and over pressure in others. It's not that it can't be done, it just can't be done affordably.

BTW, that's less than a couple PSI per square foot. Five PSI per square foot will level a brick house ( from the handbook on nuclear weapons).
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Uh...actually I have done the math on that. Thankfully it's not all that complicated, cuz imma girl and numbers are skurry. :p

I was asking the OP to shed a little light on his question before I totally geeked out on him. Besides, this is more of a policy discussion than an algebra pop quiz. He might just have been venting a little frustration at the death of yet another group of little kids. Man, BARF is like a big know-it-all convention sometimes. :twofinger
 
Okees are some strong and proud people that tend to love their land, home, and community, so moving is not an option.
 
People can't solve every problem or defend against every possibility.


Bad things happen...and when people populate an area that has a higher percentage of freaky things from nature, then the odds go up that bad things will happen there. Flood plains, coastal areas where tropical storms/hurricanes hit, tornado alley, fire prone mountain/foothill areas.....If you choose to make your home in an area like that, then hopefully you choose to prepare for it to the best of your ability.


It isn't really anyone's responsibility other than those who live there. It sucks when disasters like this happen. But it happens. It's nature...and despite man's desire and folly in thinking he can engineer a solution to every problem, or predict every scenario, or give some sort of adequate warning, he can't.

So the mess is cleaned up, damage assessed, aid is given, and life cycles on.
 
afm199 said:
Building homes to withstand that magnitude of energy is not going to happen. Do the math sometime on how much pressure a 200 mph gust imparts to a 20 by 20 wall. A 4 by 5 window at 100 mph will get 500 pounds of pressure on it. Then take into consideration the many variations that happen as windows shatter and partial vacuum forms in various areas and over pressure in others. It's not that it can't be done, it just can't be done affordably.

BTW, that's less than a couple PSI per square foot. Five PSI per square foot will level a brick house ( from the handbook on nuclear weapons).
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Are we talking about a storm proof house, or just a storm cellar/basement?

Not having a handy hiding hole in tornado alley just sounds... crazy.
 
morthrane said:
Are we talking about a storm proof house, or just a storm cellar/basement?

Not having a handy hiding hole in tornado alley just sounds... crazy.
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A lot of the land isn't suitable for building any sort of basement, either because of the bedrock or the water levels/flood potential.
A tornado will lift the roof entirely off a house, and I've seen houses knocked off their foundations. I've seen cars put through houses, trees, etc where the whole neighborhood looked like a giant walked along, kicking houses over at random and picking things up and throwing them.

I worked with a doctor who had a safe room built into his house, sort of like an interior bunker. When a big tornado hit the area, his wife was at home and went running for the safe room, but the house was destroyed around her. The objects that had been placed in the safe room had been completely sucked out of it, and the only part of the house left intact was the little area where she'd taken shelter under the stairs and held on for dear life.

Growing up, we had a storm cellar but we hardly ever used it. Tornadoes happen so often in that part of the country, it's like quakes in the bay area. Everybody I know back home has had trees pulled out of the ground, sheds or barns destroyed, etc. You just get used to it.

I can't really blame this is any way on the people living there or the building codes. I just hope they are able to rebuild their lives and move forward.
 
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DucatiHoney said:
Uh...actually I have done the math on that. Thankfully it's not all that complicated, cuz imma girl and numbers are skurry. :p

I was asking the OP to shed a little light on his question before I totally geeked out on him. Besides, this is more of a policy discussion than an algebra pop quiz. He might just have been venting a little frustration at the death of yet another group of little kids. Man, BARF is like a big know-it-all convention sometimes. :twofinger
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I've lived in the midwest with tornadoes and ten years ago got to run from one on a bike I had just bought in Dallas in May. It's what happens there. The idea that gubmint is going to make life safe for everyone is pretty scary, actually. Much scarier than tornadoes, hurricanes, and earthquakes.

My ex was a caltrans PE who crunched numbers for Caltrans. She had the same problem. I guess girls and math are just a problem :teeth
 
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wellbredred said:
Heard that only 1/10 have basements due to the bedrock. That was surprising, and the schools don't have them either, which is why most schools were sending kids home early. Think I'd build me a reinforced concrete "shed" with two feet thick walls.
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This. They need to modify their building codes for next time.
 
enki said:
This. They need to modify their building codes for next time.
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Good to have an expert chime in. Any idea where the money is going to come from? The only thing they can do to modify building codes is insist on a concrete blockhouse somewhere. Frame buildings are NOT going to withstand that kind of storm. Most people in the midwest are not going to have the $50-$100k sitting around to construct a storm shelter for a once in a lifetime event.
 
wellbredred said:
Heard that only 1/10 have basements due to the bedrock. That was surprising, and the schools don't have them either, which is why most schools were sending kids home early. Think I'd build me a reinforced concrete "shed" with two feet thick walls.
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:thumbup Exactly, This is what chaps my ass. Tornado Alley has been having Tornadoes for all of our American history, every year. And the houses are built like they don't have any stronger wind than we do.

There was a time when a storm cellar was just standard home design.
That's when people had a concept of self sufficiency and neighbors came together for big jobs that needed to be done.
 
louemc said:
There was a time when a storm cellar was just standard home design. That's when people had a concept of self sufficiency and neighbors came together for big jobs that needed to be done.
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Yeah, when you could get 5,000 people to come out and chip at limestone for you.

:rofl
 
CockyRooster said:
There's not much defense against a telephone pole flying 200mph.
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Not Above ground there isn't and a 200 MPH wind has everything flying, impacting, breaking, everything else.

But Ya don't have to be above ground, if you have made below ground shelters:twofinger

This is where the denial aspect runs amok.
 
louemc said:
:thumbup Exactly, This is what chaps my ass. Tornado Alley has been having Tornadoes for all of our American history, every year. And the houses are built like they don't have any stronger wind than we do.

There was a time when a storm cellar was just standard home design.
That's when people had a concept of self sufficiency and neighbors came together for big jobs that needed to be done.
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Do you even read all of the replies? There is an obvious reason for the lack of basements in the area, and it has been stated at least twice.

wellbredred said:
Heard that only 1/10 have basements due to the bedrock.
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Nitewaif said:
A lot of the land isn't suitable for building any sort of basement, either because of the bedrock or the water levels/flood potential.
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Please, Lou, explain to me how you're going to overcome the issue of bedrock or flood levels in a thousand homes. Neighbors pulling together? How exactly are they going to pull together?

Or are you going to just drop a smarmy post with no substance again?
 
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