Toyota problems could be electronics

[Enchanter]

The V6 Mustang set. Younger buyers who either don't trust themselves with a lot of power and/or can't afford the insurance and gas that goes along with having higher performance.

I dunno. If they aren't officially aiming to take buyers away from the Miata, automotive enthusiasts definitely see it that way.

Trouble is, the V6 Mustang puts out over 300HP and costs less than the FR-S. :|

In fact, for a little over $22K, you can have a 305HP, 31 MPG Mustang. I changed my mind...Toyota is crazy.

I don't have a dime to spend on any Mustang, but the Sub-yota is on the short list for a trackcar. I'm happy to wait 12-18mo to buy used (or salvage titled).

 

[Kornholio]

Brand loyalty is one thing, Tim. But clearly you have shut the door on Ford without even trying to consider the changes that have recently been made. There's a reason they still outsell Chevy in almost every aspect. Bang for your buck is one of the biggest. Quality is not crap anymore and anyone that actually goes and drives one would understand that.

 

[TheRobSJ]

Trouble is, the V6 Mustang puts out over 300HP and costs less than the FR-S. :|

In fact, for a little over $22K, you can have a 305HP, 31 MPG Mustang. I changed my mind...Toyota is crazy.

Yeah, but the Scion weighs right around half a ton less than the Mustang. Sure it could still use more power, but handling should be pretty damn good. It's a car with a lot of potential.

 

[Kornholio]

Yeah, but the Scion weighs right around half a ton less than the Mustang. Sure it could still use more power, but handling should be pretty damn good. It's a car with a lot of potential.

Granted. It's just a different buyers demographic. There's still a large contingency of pony car lovers out there. The fact that the Mustang has been a sales leader for so many years is proof of that.

 

[TheRobSJ]

I dunno. If they aren't officially aiming to take buyers away from the Miata, automotive enthusiasts definitely see it that way.



I don't have a dime to spend on any Mustang, but the Sub-yota is on the short list for a trackcar. I'm happy to wait 12-18mo to buy used (or salvage titled).

I don't see too many people cross shopping the FR-S to a Miata. You're either looking for a convertible or you're not.

Like I said...potential is there with that Scion. Probably a pretty fun track car bone stock. It'd be super fun with R comp tires and another 100hp. Probably more fun the the track only Boss 302R my Ford dealer is getting in.

 

[Bay Arean]

Well that explains that. I've never even sat in a Prius much less driven one.

I sat in the backseat of one. It made me want to rape and kill.

 

[fawndog]

Is the Mustang still live axle ?

 

[jt2]

the snowflake in the mountain symbol still isn't a guarantee. the infamous BFG Mud Terrain carries it i believe, and those things pretty much suck if it's at all icy. ya need the little grooves across the tread blocks aka sipes

I don't know about the Mudders, but the Diesel Truck From Hell has siped BFG A/T tires on it with the Severe Snow Service rating, and they are uncanny on snow and ice.

During the freakish 2010 winter, we got snowed in pretty solidly on a couple of mountain trips (with a bonus of half an inch of ice on the road) and the DTFH was the only vehicle in the neighborhood that could move - and that included several SUVs and Subarus. Saved us from running out of beer more than once.

 

[TheRobSJ]

Granted. It's just a different buyers demographic. There's still a large contingency of pony car lovers out there. The fact that the Mustang has been a sales leader for so many years is proof of that.

I would like to drive the new Scion, but I'd probably never buy one.

Pony car on the other hand? I can absolutely totally see myself pulling the trigger on a new 5.0 Mustang or Camaro SS. Just something about a sweet sounding brute force V8 that keeps me coming back for more.

 

[TheRobSJ]

Is the Mustang still live axle ?

Yup. The next gen 'Stang which we'll be seeing in two years goes to full independent.

 

[Bay Arean]

I keep trying to justify buying a 'stang. Makes zero sense for me, but they look suhweet. FWIW, I had a 66 when I was 18. It's the one that got away. Never should have sold it....

 

[Kornholio]

I would like to drive the new Scion, but I'd probably never buy one.

Pony car on the other hand? I can absolutely totally see myself pulling the trigger on a new 5.0 Mustang or Camaro SS. Just something about a sweet sounding brute force V8 that keeps me coming back for more.

See I was referring to the V6. The V8's are still out of a lot of buyer's price ranges. But you can't bitch about a 305 HP V6 with 31 MPG that has the performance numbers that it does and still costs just over $22K. Seriously.

 

[auntiebling]

I don't know about the Mudders, but the Diesel Truck From Hell has siped BFG A/T tires on it with the Severe Snow Service rating, and they are uncanny on snow and ice.

During the freakish 2010 winter, we got snowed in pretty solidly on a couple of mountain trips (with a bonus of half an inch of ice on the road) and the DTFH was the only vehicle in the neighborhood that could move - and that included several SUVs and Subarus. Saved us from running out of beer more than once.

had bfg at ko on my landcruiser. liked them. when they wore out i replaced them with bridgestone at revo2, will not buy at ko again if i'm in that situation. it's a good tire, revo2 is just better

 

[Enchanter]

Brand loyalty is one thing, Tim. But clearly you have shut the door on Ford without even trying to consider the changes that have recently been made. There's a reason they still outsell Chevy in almost every aspect. Bang for your buck is one of the biggest. Quality is not crap anymore and anyone that actually goes and drives one would understand that.

I have no brand loyalty Jason. Zip! Never had any, never will. It's the capability of the vehicle that gets me everytime.

I was very interested in the Boss 302 Laguna Seca, and it is a very nice car, but the $ to fun equation left it lacking. The solid axle is but one of the problems. If that car was available for $25K, then it would gain more consideration. The V6 Mustang's 300hp/30mpg is impressive, but when it comes to turning and stopping, it falls on it's face.

As for bang-for-the-$, dude, THAT is the reason that I'm driving the Chevy I have now. It is the performance bargain of the decade.

I don't see too many people cross shopping the FR-S to a Miata. You're either looking for a convertible or you're not.

I agree. I think that the Sub-yota is going to take the buyers that were forced into the Miata because of it's handling, but would have preferred a solid roof.

 

[Kornholio]

I have no brand loyalty Jason. Zip! Never had any, never will. It's the capability of the vehicle that gets me everytime.

I was very interested in the Boss 302 Laguna Seca, and it is a very nice car, but the $ to fun equation left it lacking. The solid axle is but one of the problems.

As for bang-for-the-$, dude, THAT is the reason that I'm driving the Chevy I have now. It is the performance bargain of the decade.

Bang-for-the-buck doesn't just refer to performance in my book. Corvettes are nice cars but they're simply not practical whatsoever. I could at least carry things in my Mustang. My entire stage rig fit in the car, for example. My drummer had a Mustang and his whole drum kit fit in his. You can't do that with a Vette.

 

[fast4d]

I'd buy a honda/acura (automobile) over any toyota appliance.

 

[Bay Arean]

I've had both, the Honda was a bit cooler in style but the Toyota most reliable and solidly built cars I've ever owned. I had a Camry wagon, which got stolen and now the Highlander (its replacement). The latter is very very solid car. I've also owned a Mazda truck from new. Not a great brand for me. Head gasket at 50. Ridiculous and it was a known issue.

 

[Squidly McSmearstain]

The V6 Mustang's 300hp/30mpg is impressive, but when it comes to turning and stopping, it falls on it's face.

As for bang-for-the-$, dude, THAT is the reason that I'm driving the Chevy I have now. It is the performance bargain of the decade.

A quick perusal of the Edmunds site shows the V6 Mustang going through the slalom at 67.3mph while the BRZ went through at 69.1.

While I'm sure the BRZ is a sweet handler and better than a V6 Mustang, to say the Mustang falls flat on its face when turning seems a bit inaccurate.

FWIW, the new Mustang 5.0 did the slalom at 70.3 while the Corvette scooted through at 69.7.

I'm not going to get into a Ford/Chevy debate. Both cars are great. Yes, the Mustang live rear axle is antiquated technology, but that doesn't necessarily mean the car won't turn. The Corvette's OHV design is also antiquated, but that doesn't mean it won't rev.

Given the target audience for the BRZ/FR-S I think they missed the mark. There are too many other options with the same or better performance for the same money.

 

[frozenduc]

I've had yodas since the late 1970's. I'm done with them.
Over engineered nanny computerized junk. Quality is gone and they're just another shit pile.

*As is everything else these days

 

[Diezel]

OK, I actually h8 toyota, but I don't think the above article by the professor could be the [only]/[credible] cause . It maybe a true research that he's done, but maybe he discovered something else.

No one ever remembers all the "recall" bullshit EVERY car company on the planet has gone through.

How about all the lawsuits over:

Fords falling OUT of park, and into reverse.
GM transmissions
Chrysler/Dodge Transmissions
Chrysler/Dodge rear minivan door latch failure
Volvo's spontaneously accelerating

Blah, blah, blah....

The circle of life in the world. Someone makes something. Something fucks up. Someone else over sensationalizes it.