type of motor oil to use in 1997 Bandit 1200s?

[ST Guy]

Yep. I've used Mobil one for decades. In fact the ONLY time it has been a problem was with, gasp, the B12 which is what this thread is about. The B12 stock clutch is a total POS.

And that Is why I suggest not using Mobil one in the B12 until you change the clutch springs. This is something that has been discussed in B12 forums for literally twenty years.

'Just curious, how much stiffer is the clutch pull with the Barnett springs? I used to have an old 650 Suzuki and I put all 6 Barnett springs in and if I'd left them in place, I would have ended up with arms like Popeye. I ended up pulling out half of them and putting the stock springs back in, alternating stock with Barnett. Worked great.

 

[afm199]

'Just curious, how much stiffer is the clutch pull with the Barnett springs? I used to have an old 650 Suzuki and I put all 6 Barnett springs in and if I'd left them in place, I would have ended up with arms like Popeye. I ended up pulling out half of them and putting the stock springs back in, alternating stock with Barnett. Worked great.

It's a diaphragm, not individual springs. IIRC you had the option of replacing both diaphragm springs or just one to make it work. It wasn't that bad. The stocker really is weak.

 

[tranquilride]

The person I bought the bandit from, jist texted me a photo of info of oil he put into the bandit a couple months, few hundred miles ago. He thinks it may be non synthetic since it doesn't say authentic.

His words -

" Hmmm... I think I've used Castrol "Actevo Xtra 4T" ... "Part synthetic"... SAE 10W-40. And also "Pro Honda GN4 SAE 10w40 SJ". I think maybe it was the pro Honda I used last... Literally a couple months ago, maybe a couple hundred miles. "

Attached is image of it apparently.

He also said the clutch rod and spring were previously replaced.

 

[afm199]

The person I bought the bandit from, jist texted me a photo of info of oil he put into the bandit a couple months, few hundred miles ago. He thinks it may be non synthetic since it doesn't say authentic.

His words -

" Hmmm... I think I've used Castrol "Actevo Xtra 4T" ... "Part synthetic"... SAE 10W-40. And also "Pro Honda GN4 SAE 10w40 SJ". I think maybe it was the pro Honda I used last... Literally a couple months ago, maybe a couple hundred miles. "

Attached is image of it apparently.

He also said the clutch rod and spring were previously replaced.

I doubt he replaced the spring(s) with the aftermarket, could be.

Unless you plan on beating on the bike, you should be good to go with 10-40 synthetic. If you plan on riding hard, don't use a full synthetic.

The manufacturer isn't really that important.

 

[injun]

Dam an oil thread where no one has cried YET.
Listen to the old guys grasshopper.

 

[ST Guy]

I doubt he replaced the spring(s) with the aftermarket, could be.

Unless you plan on beating on the bike, you should be good to go with 10-40 synthetic. If you plan on riding hard, don't use a full synthetic.

The manufacturer isn't really that important.

IMHO, if he plans on riding it hard, that's even more reason for the full synthetic. Don't sacrifice the engine just because the clutch might slip. If the clutch slips, fix the clutch. It's easier than repkacing a burned up engine.

 

[afm199]

IMHO, if he plans on riding it hard, that's even more reason for the full synthetic. Don't sacrifice the engine just because the clutch might slip. If the clutch slips, fix the clutch. It's easier than repkacing a burned up engine.

Sure. However synth is not a magic lube. It's just a better one that lasts longer. Any good oil changed often will see a motor last a very long time. There are millions of motos out there with tens of thousands of miles that have never seen synth.

As I said, I prefer synth. As I said, he should replace the clutch springs if he uses it. That's my stand. His choice, not mine. I think I said that several times.

 

[Busy Little Shop]

For people who have and do own Suzuki Bandits, what type of motorcycle oil do you use in it? Which has proven to be the most beneficial, compatible and supportive of long engine life?

My customers always ask me which viscosity should I use???

If there is one thing a owner has control over its the viscosity of
their oil... so going by the official Suzuki manual you may choose either
30wt 40wt or 50wt... this means that according to the Engineers who
designed the engine any one the three viscosities are safe to reach
your longevity expectations... there is mounting evidence that this is
true because no one is complaining about wearing out their engine rather
you hear that a owner just grows tired of one model and wants something new...

So if you ask me what is the best viscosity I will say the one that gives
the most RWHP without wearing out your engine and lowers your
operating temp during summer... and that means any car or motorcycle
specific 100% synthetic 30 weight... I don't worry about running the
lower viscosity 30 because it has proven to meet any owners mileage
expectations... Oil engineers know that flow not pressure lubricates
our prized engines and its time we learn that fact too... its no
brainier that 30 weights flow more than 40 or 50 and 100% synthetics
flow more than straight Dino... between a 30wt and 40wt is 2 to 3 HP in
unnecessary oil drag... between a 30 and 50 is 4 to 6 HP in unnecessary oil drag...

Synthetic versus Mineral???

Mobil 1 sells 85% of the market share of oil... both their synthetic and non
synthetic begin with good old crude oil... synthetic molecules are made in an
extra and expensive level of refining that produces the highly desired low drag
uniform molecules... compare that with the straight mineral oils undesirable
varying size and high drag molecules... uniform synthetic molecules flow
better than varying size mineral molecules... synthetic oil is like traveling a
smooth road where as mineral oil is like traveling a bumpy road... which one is
most desirable for you???

If you grasp the main difference between synthetic and mineral oil you'll begin
to understand that synthetic uniform oil molecules can not defeat a clutch in
good working order... that leaves mileage or a weak spring as your culprit...

SYNTHETIC...


STRAIGHT MINERAL

 

[Busy Little Shop]

I'm a bit confused about your statement. As in text you seem to be suggesting 10w-30. Yet the images you included are of 5w-30 oil.

Whats the difference between 10w and 5w???

API ranks the first number 5 and the letter W from the oldest to the
newest on its ability to lube your engine during critical start up...

20w

15w

10w

5w

0w

If you wish to employ the latest in oil technology then you want an one with
an API rank of 0w...

If you ask API they will state that the W does not mean "winter" or "weight'


Technical speaking the first number (the "5" in 5w30 and "10" in 10w30) is
only a relative number which basically indicates how easily it will allow an
engine to "turn over" at low temperatures. It is NOT a viscosity reference. In
other words, a 5w30 is NOT a 5 weight oil in cold temperatures and a 30
weight oil in warm temperatures... rather a 5W30 actual viscosity is 56 cSt at
104F and 10 cSt at 212F that means the oil was heated to 212º F and
it flowed within a certain kinematic viscosity which is then classified with in a
certain SAE grade like the "30" in 5w30).

 

[tranquilride]

Sure. However synth is not a magic lube. It's just a better one that lasts longer. Any good oil changed often will see a motor last a very long time. There are millions of motos out there with tens of thousands of miles that have never seen synth.

As I said, I prefer synth. As I said, he should replace the clutch springs if he uses it. That's my stand. His choice, not mine. I think I said that several times.

Do you mean I should replace something other than I mentioned the previous owner said was replaced? ( Clutch push rod & seal? Seems replacing spring at same time would have been normal? )
I tried uploading simple screenshot images ( 2 ) of what previous owner texted, but barf seems to have strange, tiny image upload parameters as it said image upload failure image too large or such. Males no sense, everyone other website I've used that has image sharing, upload features has no problem uploading anything from phone.

 

[afm199]

Here's my last thought. Anyone know Dale Walker of Holeshot? He's got a lot of experience building motors and bikes.

He recommends that nobody use synth in the early Bandit 1200s because of the clutch issue, and that you buy the Barnett Kit to fix it.

tranquilride, if you're not sure, just use non synthetic oil.

Replacing the clutch push rod and seal has nothing to do with the diaphragm springs. And replacing them doesn't fix anything UNLESS you get the Barnett part.

Here's a link from Holeshot for the entire clutch kit or just the spring. http://www.holeshot.com/suzuki/bandit/600-1200/products/holeshot-clutch-kit/1200

It's $13. Just buy it and install it and run synth.

 

[tranquilride]

Here's my last thought. Anyone know Dale Walker of Holeshot? He's got a lot of experience building motors and bikes.

He recommends that nobody use synth in the early Bandit 1200s because of the clutch issue, and that you buy the Barnett Kit to fix it.

tranquilride, if you're not sure, just use non synthetic oil.

Replacing the clutch push rod and seal has nothing to do with the diaphragm springs. And replacing them doesn't fix anything UNLESS you get the Barnett part.

Here's a link from Holeshot for the entire clutch kit or just the spring. http://www.holeshot.com/suzuki/bandit/600-1200/products/holeshot-clutch-kit/1200

It's $13. Just buy it and install it and run synth.

Thank you. How easy or challenging is installing that clutch spring for someone with no prior Moto mechanical repair experience and a few basic tools?

 

[MX500]

All 4 of my Bandit 1200's like/liked Rotella T6. It shifted smoothest with rotella, noticeably better than amsoil, and redline, and it worked great during long distance high speed rides below freezing as well. The 15w-40 rotella and delo 400 worked very well on warm days, but didn't seem to shift as smooth when running cold.

Over 50,000 miles beaten into those bikes, never had any issues at all besides petcocks (went to pingel), vapor lock from over filling the tank (delete evap canister and its good), and frequent valve adjustment intervals.

 

[MX500]

Thank you. How easy or challenging is installing that clutch spring for someone with no prior Moto mechanical repair experience and a few basic tools?

4/10 difficulty, watch youtube and you'll be fine. Be sure to torque things properly. Another trick is to use thick drive plates instead of the thin plates. I repaired a 115000 mile bandit clutch with new thicker drive plates and a barnette spring, it hooked great. The friction plates were still within spec to my surprise.

 

[MX500]

Bro tip: I've had 2 first gens and 2 second gens. Only the first gen bandits had a clutch "problem" which does not cause issues unless they are high mileage or modified. I'm surprised this was not mentioned yet. A stock Bandit with stock clutch in good shape is "sufficient" unless you use car oil with friction modifiers. I rip the centers on my tires, I do tons of launching and hard 0-100mph accelerating and have had zero clutch issues with the second gen bikes over 60,000 miles.

I would personally not run a 5w30 or 10w30 in an oil cooled bike, it "can" be too thin at high temperatures and loose protection. Probably not a big deal if you never ride more than 5-10 miles. The 5w40 from my experience is great, the "5w" means it flows like 5 weight when cold, which helps a TON on these non thermostat controlled bikes when commuting at night during winter and during cold starts while still having full "40w" protection on high temp hot days. I've ridden up to about 115* and always beat my bikes, never had an issue with 5w40, 10w40, or 15w40, except that the 5w40 T6 shifted the best at all temps.

Check your oil level religiously, I've had 2 petcocks fail and fill my crankcase with gasoline. Luckily I warm my bikes up before riding and noticed on the wideband that my afr was crazy rich and they didn't sound happy...

Bonus: Pingel will give you a viton gasket if requested, it solved my leaky tank to petcock issues.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss cost effective modifications or other off topic Bandit things. I have plenty of aftermarket and upgraded parts available as well...

 

[Haket]

Late to the party here, but have owner 3 x 1200 Gen1 Bandits. I run 10w40 part synth. Tried fully synth and got clutch slip. The B12 clutch is a known weakness.

1st B12: Went 1 Barnett spring with stock plates after original was worn out at 25k.... maybe a burnout or two accelerated its demise. Did another 25k on it with no clutch issues. Just adding the spring on the work clutch worked until the new plates came in. I found two springs to be far too heavy.

2nd was a turbo'd Drag bike but replaced the whole clutch with a trick lock-up conversion. Same 10w40 oil on it, no issues in the 5k I owned it.

3rd is still in stock clutch form, ~40k miles running 10w40 part synth. No issues so far.

 

[Busy Little Shop]

the "5w" means it flows like 5 weight when cold,

Negative...

API ranks the first number 5 and the letter W from the oldest to the
newest on its ability to flow your engine during critical start up...

20w

15w

10w

5w

0w


According to API the W does not mean "winter" or "weight' either...


Technical speaking the first number (the "5" in 5w40 and "10" in 10w40) is
only a relative number which basically indicates how easily it will allow an
engine to "turn over" at low temperatures. It is NOT a viscosity reference. In
other words, a 5w30 is NOT a 5 weight oil in cold temperatures and a 40
weight oil in warm temperatures... actually a 5W40 actual start up viscosity is
76 cSt at 104F and 12 cSt at 212F to arrive at that number means the oil
was heated to 212º F and it flowed within a certain kinematic viscosity which
is then classified with in a certain SAE grade like the "40" in 5w40). so its not
a measurement of thick and thin rather a measurement of flow... and the
more flow in an air cooled engine the better...

 

[MX500]

Negative...

API ranks the first number 5 and the letter W from the oldest to the
newest on its ability to flow your engine during critical start up...

20w

15w

10w

5w

0w


According to API the W does not mean "winter" or "weight' either...


Technical speaking the first number (the "5" in 5w40 and "10" in 10w40) is
only a relative number which basically indicates how easily it will allow an
engine to "turn over" at low temperatures. It is NOT a viscosity reference. In
other words, a 5w30 is NOT a 5 weight oil in cold temperatures and a 40
weight oil in warm temperatures... actually a 5W40 actual start up viscosity is
76 cSt at 104F and 12 cSt at 212F to arrive at that number means the oil
was heated to 212º F and it flowed within a certain kinematic viscosity which
is then classified with in a certain SAE grade like the "40" in 5w40). so its not
a measurement of thick and thin rather a measurement of flow... and the
more flow in an air cooled engine the better...

It flows a metric fuckton better. It makes a VERY noticeable difference in cold shifting and the bikes idle smoother. It is much thinner than 15w40 when cold. Is that better?

 

[Busy Little Shop]

Is that better?

Engineers that designed your engine and the mechanics who service your engine
both agree that the most wear happens during start up before warm up... so the
more flow you have at start up the better...

 

[Schnellbandit]

OP, it's a 1997 Bandit so it's right at 20 years old, the worry about what oil to use in it is about 19 years 11 months past time. Simply put, you aren't going to change whatever has been used in that engine for the last 20 years.

Read the first three posts, that is the key right there and it isn't more complicated than that unless you are racing or every stop light is a drag race.

You can buy expensive oil because there is some claim a specific kind and type of oil will give you more HP or this and that and end up spending more money in oil than the bike is worth, it is what it is and it's probably going to run just fine using whatever has been used in it longer than you'll keep it.

BTW, give a little thought as to how you'll ride the bike and within manufacturers specs adjust accordingly. It's an air cooled engine and the worst thing for an air cooled engine is for it to be running and the bike not moving. All the oil in the world isn't going to make a diference if you sit in stopped traffic all day cooking the engine.

Then just go ride the thing. Change the oil frequently and if it goes belly up with 3000 mile oil changes no super duper oil was going to make one bit of difference.