When should we stop riding? -- perspectives of an older rider

[Pushrod]

Stop riding? There are unintended consequences if you ever stop riding, there are cosmic rules in place about having a balance in life.

Because of two wheeled trauma experienced to other people I know, I began to doubt the veracity of continuing my hobby. Feelings of mortality set in on me when a friend low sided and broke his back, ending in a cast and then brace for endless months. I parked my bike for a long while.

Until my wife complained.

Seems that our marital conjugation was tied somehow to my riding, that after a ride what I wanted was sex. Knowing the pattern, she had expectations of me that I hadn't realized were tied into my ride. Who knew? I just thought that it was discrete and separate, I even thought my wife suggesting my purchase of a new motorcycle was because she loved me. Little did I know it was mercenary on her part.

Stop riding because I'm getting older? I DON'T THINK SO. I'll continue to ride because the prospect of a frustrated, menopausal spouse is too awful to consider. Besides, living with a stupid grin on my face is what I'm known for.

 

[firstgen82]

I like how Forest Gump said it best in the running scene...

"I'm really tired...... I think i'll go home now"

Part made me crack up just to stop in the middle of nowhere and say that after running for 3 years 2 months 14 days and 16 hours.

We do things because we feel like doing it....when we stop...it's because we finally got tried of doing it.

 

[RcrBoy]

You old guys might want to start exercising regularly and eating well.. I am 62 and age has not slowed me down on the track much. It will if you let your body go.

And there you have it!!!!!!

I'm always working out and staying fit. I'm NOT going to rot in an old folks home with someone else wiping my ass!

This is probably the single most important reason that I did not die from my race crash last May, I'm 51 this year.
That and probably the fact that perhaps God figures I'm worthy for some reason, still workin' on figuring THAT one out

My surgeon told me that a right leg Ti-knee replacement was gonna be in my future, providing I don't croak, and yet, even this appeals to me...

Perhaps a sidecar outfit or a trike, used for pleasure riding rather than commuting, would be a good option? Your risk of going down would be minimized, though not the risk of collision with objects or errant cages.

When the fear or pain exceeds the joy, that'll be my signal to hang it up.

I'm never giving it up. And if I can no longer ride, for what ever reason, I'm just going to restore some classics and sell them. Bikes are in my blood and they'll leave my life when I leave this world.........


Mark

 

[RC31x]

I don't plan to stop riding, but I am planning on a few other things:

- I plan to avoid riding on a regular basis in heavy traffic if it's at all possible

- I plan to avoid riding like an irresponsible tool

- I plan to avoid riding with irresponsible tools

- I plan to keep my most spirited riding to the track, while still holding back from taking unnecessary risks

- I plan to be as aware as possible when I ride - aware of my surroundings, aware of the road conditions, and aware of my pace and the safety margin it leaves me

I don't know when my time is coming, but I do think there are things that I can do to minimize the chances of it coming sooner rather than later. We're not powerless against fate - there are things we can do and choices we can make.

That's a great list. I've seen a lot of people (myself included) do the soul searching thing after a moto wreck. Most of them end up making some of those same tweaks to their program.

Motorcycling is inherently unsafe, but there's a ton of things a rider can do to stack the deck in their own favor. The biggest single thing would be the ability to analyse your actions, and the actions of people you ride with, and know where the improvements can be found. The plans above are output from that kind of analysis. The trick is to start the process *before* you're lying in an ambulance. A ride to the hospital (or sometimes a fat ass ticket) act as a strong catalyst for starting the process of introspection. One could start the process without the influencing trauma, but thrill of riding and the familiarity of our current behavior is a pretty hard force to compete with. A big get off helps turn up the volume on that voice in your head that's saying "this isn't sustainable, I should probably change something".

Anyone that plans to ride long term and wants to balance the danger with a desire to reach old age should develop that sort of introspection, and be able to honestly follow whatever plan they make.

As an fellow irresponsible tool, I salute your efforts! Too bad we won't be able to ride together

 

[MCSFTGUY]

Two years ago my almost 80 year old Father-in-law road his HD Street Glide to Milwaukee with my 50 something wife on her HD and my 50 something fat a$$ on my HD.... 5100 miles in 11 days. I watched him like a hawk the whole trip and he did just fine.... I would not want him riding with a passenger, but my mother-in-law won't get on the bike anymore anyway.

Do you slow down, yes, do other things happen yes. But, how much of riding is a mental game anticipating and preparing for what you see?

I am reading more and more about this age thing from the safety guys writing for the different magazines out there. Right now, I think they are fishing for stuff to write on. Data Dan may have more on this, but I tend to think that the crash stats don't show an age related slow down as being associated with crash cause. I would be more inclined to believe it is an age related brain fart trying to do something stupid on the bike that they were no prepared or ready to handle.

As for the physical slow downs that occur.... in the overall picture of some incident, they are not going to make a whole lot of difference in the outcome.

 

[Coastal Coyote]

I'm in the process of raising young kids (ages 7, 5, and 3), and I am seriously considering taking a break until they're off to college. I love to ride, but I can't stand the thought of them going through their childhood without me around. I have a feeling that both my bikes will be up for sale within the next few weeks.

 

[DataDan]

I am reading more and more about this age thing from the safety guys writing for the different magazines out there. Right now, I think they are fishing for stuff to write on. Data Dan may have more on this, but I tend to think that the crash stats don't show an age related slow down as being associated with crash cause. I would be more inclined to believe it is an age related brain fart trying to do something stupid on the bike that they were no prepared or ready to handle.

Attached is a chart showing the age distribution of US motorcycle owners and riders involved in fatal crashes. The five colored bands represent percentages of riders in fatal crashes. For example, in 2003, 46% were 40 and older, and 30% were under 30. The two lines delimit areas that represent owner age distribution. For example, in 2003 56% of owners were age 40 and up while 24% were under 30.

As clearly shown, older riders are increasingly involved in fatal crashes, with age 40+ now comprising 50%, up from only 10% in 1985. However, the rising number of deaths is accounted for by an increasing number of riders 40 and over. In fact, older riders are less likely to be involved in fatal crashes than younger riders. While 56% of owners were 40 and older in 2003, only 46% of riders in fatal crashes where that old.

Do you slow down, yes, do other things happen yes. But, how much of riding is a mental game anticipating and preparing for what you see?

Other factors equal, a young rider with a few milliseconds faster reaction will have a better chance to avoid a crash than an older rider. But other factors are never equal. A rider--of whatever age--who has learned from experience to anticipate threats and take precautionary action early will have a much greater advantage than the mere milliseconds a youthful neurological system bestows. I would rather react casually to a threat 5 seconds before it becomes critical than wait until it is critical and have one-tenth of a second faster reaction.

 

[Maddevill]

If the concerns and worries out weigh the fun you have riding, then it;s time to hang it up. I'm 52 and I still love my sport bike. I run the twisties but maintain a margin, no street racing for me.I just retired from racing but still do track days. I ain't planning on quitting for a LONG while yet.

 

[mdorkenhoff]

Attached is a chart showing the age distribution of US motorcycle owners and riders involved in fatal crashes. The five colored bands represent percentages of riders in fatal crashes. For example, in 2003, 46% were 40 and older, and 30% were under 30. The two lines delimit areas that represent owner age distribution. For example, in 2003 56% of owners were age 40 and up while 24% were under 30.

What was the source of this chart? Is there a version with more granularity? "Older than 40" is a pretty large/diverse bucket

Thanks

 

[EastBayDave]

Just ride until you don't enjoy it any more. Only then is it time to quit. I started riding at age 7 in 62' on friends minibikes, I'm 55 now, & I have numerous health "issues" (mostly mid-late stage diabetes, & serious brain damage/impairment from MCS.) Somehow, I still manage a mellow ride or two a month, typically up in the nearby twisties; abet a lot slower & more careful nowdays than I used to ride.

I don't ride around town/do errands on the bike anymore (mainly due to the dangers of cagers.) I do very few "group" rides anymore (what a change there eh'), & I haven't done a trackday in a number of years (I want to but $$$.) My riding on the freeway is to get to & from the twisties, period.

I think as long as I continue to call myself an "enthusiast" I must continue riding. I see little choice as I'm typically up at (or before) the crack of dawn reading race reports, gossip, BARF, & other biking sites, so I guess I'm still an enthusiast? Yep, I guess this is a fact, & it will always be so for me.

I believe for many of us enthusiasts riding will always be a part of life, no matter what the detracting factors, so I say just continue riding until it's not fun anymore. I think only then, will it be time to hang up the leathers & settle into the rocking chair...

-ebd

 

[DataDan]

What was the source of this chart? Is there a version with more granularity? "Older than 40" is a pretty large/diverse bucket

Fatality data is from NHTSA's FARS database. Ownership data is from Motorcycle Industry Council.

The top fatality age group in the original chart is 50+, not 40+. Here's one that breaks out 60+.

 

[DigDoug]

Fatality data is from NHTSA's FARS database. Ownership data is from Motorcycle Industry Council.

The top fatality age group in the original chart is 50+, not 40+. Here's one that breaks out 60+.

That's the great thing about statistics. You can manipulate the data to enforce any idea you want it too. Too many semantics and too many ways to interpret the information. Nothing can replace common sense IMHO.

What was the experience levels of those riders above 40, 50 or 60? How many were first time street riders? What were the conditions of the roads at the time? Were the fatalities in urban or rural areas?

See where I'm going with this?

 

[DataDan]

That's the great thing about statistics. You can manipulate the data to enforce any idea you want it too.

No, you can't.

What was the experience levels of those riders above 40, 50 or 60? How many were first time street riders? What were the conditions of the roads at the time? Were the fatalities in urban or rural areas?

Interesting questions, but irrelevant. MCSFTGUY wrote:

I am reading more and more about this age thing from the safety guys writing for the different magazines out there. Right now, I think they are fishing for stuff to write on. Data Dan may have more on this, but I tend to think that the crash stats don't show an age related slow down as being associated with crash cause.​

If there is an "age-related slowdown" causing older riders to crash and die, it might be seen in the data as a higher fatality rate among older riders. However, I presented data showing that, in fact, "older riders are less likely to be involved in fatal crashes than younger riders." So the basic data available--age distribution of motorcycle owners and of fatal crash victims--does NOT show a greater likelihood of crashing among older riders. If there is an "age-related slowdown" it is less important than other, unexamined factors tending to keep these riders safer. Therefore, MCSFTGUY has a good point that "the safety guys writing for the different magazines...are fishing for stuff to write on."

 

[DataDan]

That ends the discussion in this thread of the effectiveness of statistics in supporting or refuting arguments. If you think you can use statistics to prove something you know to be false, start a thread in the Sink. Many BARFers will be able to show where you're wrong.

The topic here is whether infirmity in older riders might contribute to their crashes. The data seems to show that they are less likely to die in motorcycle crashes than younger riders, but any post that illuminates that question is welcome.

 

[FourT2Infinity]

Last week, my 65 yr old father was diagnosed with Stage 4 Lung Cancer - prognosis does not favor survival. We are cramming every bit of time we have left with him. I will continue to live as if it were my last day... Sometimes, we don't get to choose the last page in our life.

Embrace everything that is dear to you. Riding motorcycle included...

 

[v2s]

to old to ride?

you quit when it is no longer fun or your not feeling it, im 58 and still race, my dad still rides and he is 86, only you will know,

 

[Potere]

experience = life

The reason older riders die less is due to experience, no one disputes that.

The thing that is not obvious to younger riders is that they lack it so they take risks. How do I know? I'm 61 and raced when I was in my 20's. Here's how I got my "wisdom":

I quit bikes when I was 24 because I saw several friends die in those 3 or 4 years of riding on the road and on the track. I was corner working at Infineon circa 1974 after quitting racing in the open production class. The #1 plate was held in that class by Ed Unini and we were friends. At turn 10, I was watching a flock of riders come around the S turns during practice and saw, through binoculars, Ed behind the slower riders intending to pass them. They all went down in a mess and Ed died right then and there. His father was there that day. Ed was about 21 and a genuine nice guy. We knew each other and he would sometimes ask me after a race, "why didn't you pass me at that spot?" (because I couldn't!) After witnessing a few deaths and serious accidents, friends in the hospital after surgery, etc, the last straw was a lady turning left without signaling, right in front of me on a twisty, I hit her left front and went flying over the hood luckily hitting soft ground.

Now 37 years later I have returned by buying a beautiful and powerful Italian work of art. I ride in joy.

Do you think I drive differently than in my 20's? Do you think I wish the 20 something would drive differently? Are you in your 20's? Do you want to arrive at 60?

"Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement." Jim Horning

 

[louemc]

That's the great thing about statistics. You can manipulate the data to enforce any idea you want it too. Too many semantics and too many ways to interpret the information. Nothing can replace common sense IMHO.

What was the experience levels of those riders above 40, 50 or 60? How many were first time street riders? What were the conditions of the roads at the time? Were the fatalities in urban or rural areas?

See where I'm going with this?

I do...and I agree.
Statistics distort the truth, by not including what makes truth.

Distort is an under statement...just don't have an all inclusive blanket term to use. Either someone knows what's wrong with statistics..by what they have seen...or they don't..so words wouldn't matter anyway.

 

[horsepower]

I will never forget the 75 year old guy who led me up this twisty tight mountain outside of Taft at ludicrous speeds. He had mad skills, years of experience. I was in awe of his control and skill.
The only guys I TRUST to ride with on unknown goatrails happen to be over 50. I do not think that is a coincidence. A BIG coincidence? No, there are no big coincidences, only coincidences.
Worry and concern for our limits is what keeps us safe and within our abilities at any age.
When Grandpa starts INSISTING it's his damn right, that's when I would take the keys!!

As for me, I am 48. When I show up at my kids college campus on my loud-piped Honda 600r I embarrass the hell out of them. "oh, Mommmmm"
I love my kids, but I am not giving up my bike until it quits on me. Perhaps I should stop insisting that they call it their little brother.

 

[kluts]

I ride a lot with over 50 and 60 people. They are kind, generous, well seasoned, and talented, and a hoot to ride with.

Kind of like mushroom gatherers. There are old gatherers and bold gatherers. There are no old bold ones. Ride until you are unhappy doing so.