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Where did Jesus (the one in the bible) tell his 12 disciples to start churches...?

Oceansides said:
Some do, some dont. To those who fall on the strict side, I say read Romans. Paul makes a great argument about being condemned by the laws.
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no one nodea. the old adage that the only xtrian died on the cross is true(in the sense of the story, cause i doint think he existed)

no one ever follows hi steachinsg to the law. the religion is designed that way, that everyone is sinful and there is no way you could follow his teachings to the letter
 
You are so wrong Kevin. The new testament teaches that we are all condemned by the law (the old covanent, the 10 commandments. THE LAW) but we are saved in Christ. So we are dead in life, but have life in death through Jesus.

Yes, there are skewed and perverted forms of Christianity, but there are also many good, giving, loving Christians out there.

What evidence do you have that he did not infact exist?

EDIT-

there is a difference between not believing the miracle he performed and believing he did infact, not really exist at all.
 
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Oceansides said:
Yes, there are skewed and perverted forms of Christianity, but there are also many good, giving, loving Christians out there.
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How many do you know?

If you ever read your book, you'd know that there is no such thing as a good Christian, because nobody is good but the Father.:laughing Cute little fake Christian, I laugh at you.


I'll show you you probably do not know one true Christian.
And as he was going out on his way, a certain man ran up and fell upon his knees before him and put the question to him: “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?” 18 Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God. 19 You know the commandments, ‘Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’” 20 The man said to him: “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth on.” 21 Jesus looked upon him and felt love for him and said to him: “One thing is missing about you: Go, sell what things you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven, and come be my follower.” 22 But he grew sad at the saying and went off grieved, for he was holding many possessions.
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So if they have a house, save money, lust after another man's wife, speak ill of anyone, hold grudges, support any war, don't let those who strike one cheek to strike both, love those who try to murder them or their children, don't give twice as much to anyone who asks something from them, they're not Christians.

You're only forgiven if you do what he tells you to, it's not just believing in word, it's action that's required. That's why wide is the road but narrow the entrance, because there are a lot who call themselves Christians, and incredibly few who are. The pope for instance is certainly not a Christian.
 
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Oceansides said:
You are so wrong Kevin. The new testament teaches that we are all condemned by the law (the old covanent, the 10 commandments. THE LAW) but we are saved in Christ. So we are dead in life, but have life in death through Jesus.

Yes, there are skewed and perverted forms of Christianity, but there are also many good, giving, loving Christians out there.

What evidence do you have that he did not infact exist?

EDIT-

there is a difference between not believing the miracle he performed and believing he did infact, not really exist at all.
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I know the difference. not only do I not believe in his miralces(only a moron of willfully oblivious person would) but I do not think there is any proof for his actual existence. he is just a story, using herbrew prophecies as well as pagan religions intertwined. using a man named joseph as a starting point

I cant provide evidence he didnt exist because you can prove a negative(outside of math). but aside from biblical doctrine, there is no record of this man, nor any record of him from someone who actually knew him, interacted with him, or anything to that effect. you cant trust biblical doctrine because there is already mountains of evidence as to their inaccuracies, falsifications, or otherwise made up facts. that for obvious reasons are biased

I would ask YOU, what evidence do you have to prove he DID exists. outside of gospel or christian doctrine? you could mention josephus but again he uses no contemporories of jesus as reference, nor anyone even from his time

as for my post? how exactly am i wrong? the entire point of original sin, combined with jesus's prefection is designed specificaly to make everyone a sinner in this life, no matter what. you cannot escape it hence jesus had to save you instead. the entire doctrine of xtianity is that people are bad
 
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kevin 714 said:
as for my post? how exactly am i wrong? the entire point of original sin, combined with jesus's prefection is designed specificaly to make everyone a sinner in this life, no matter what. you cannot escape it hence jesus had to save you instead. the entire doctrine of xtianity is that people are bad
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Actually Kev, you are wrong in that respect. Jesus says you have to give up all sin, and never do it again. Paul commands people to "be perfect as your father is perfect". A real Christian does not sin or desire anything of the world, he can also heal all sickness and move mountains with faith. I'm not joking, that's what the good book says, you'll know a real Christian because he/she will be able to cure people of illness with their faith. That's the bar you have to hit in order to know if you truly believe in Jesus, no joke, it's in the bible. Which is why I say that there are an incredibly small number of real Christians, if any.
 
jacksprat said:
Actually Kev, you are wrong in that respect. Jesus says you have to give up all sin, and never do it again. Paul commands people to "be perfect as your father is perfect". A real Christian does not sin or desire anything of the world, he can also heal all sickness and move mountains with faith. I'm not joking, that's what the good book says, you'll know a real Christian because he/she will be able to cure people of illness with their faith. That's the bar you have to hit in order to know if you truly believe in Jesus, no joke, it's in the bible. Which is why I say that there are an incredibly small number of real Christians, if any.
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right i knw that, thats what Im saying. what they call a sin means its IMPOSSIBLE to give up all sin. you lieterally cant fimd another woman atractive, that its better to cut out yoyur eyes. despite the fact that you are hard wired that way.

jesus bascially makes the claim that human nature is sin, and that it isnt just actions that are sinful, THOUGHTS are fucking sinful
 
jacksprat said:
Actually Kev, you are wrong in that respect. Jesus says you have to give up all sin, and never do it again. Paul commands people to "be perfect as your father is perfect". A real Christian does not sin or desire anything of the world, he can also heal all sickness and move mountains with faith. I'm not joking, that's what the good book says, you'll know a real Christian because he/she will be able to cure people of illness with their faith. That's the bar you have to hit in order to know if you truly believe in Jesus, no joke, it's in the bible. Which is why I say that there are an incredibly small number of real Christians, if any.
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Please PM me the verses that you would reference as the basis of this statement. Thanks.
 
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<-----I like that movie


rsrider said:
There was the best scene in "Repo Man" with the tele-evangelist telling everyone that Jesus wanted him to have thier money, or something like that. And then Otto asks his parents to front him some money out his college fund and they tell him there is no more college fund for him because they donated all the money to send bibles to El Salvador, and all the while, they're sitting on the couch toking on a joint. Absolutely killer. The movie of course is in my all time top 5.
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***language warning!!***
[youtube]Axq71RFAYgo[/youtube]
 
frozenduc said:
My wife is a catholic and does the churchy thing regularly. Periodically she tries her get me to go routine.

I respond with the why should I support a group of perverts. And why contribute money to an archdiocese that is broke from paying hush money to people that have been molested by these fatherly figures. She admits it's all true but as a good hypocrite keeps going to catholic church. Effin emotionally driven idiot she is.
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WOW life at your house must be fuckin sweet! :laughing
 
yella600rr said:
Seriously, that is total bullshit! Noone should be expected to tithe. Put a blank piece of paper in the collection plate if you want people to see you put something in there.
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I read this and thought myself "fuck yeah! fuck religion!"

and then i remembered that i pay almost 40% to the Federal, State and Local governments for the "privilege" of living here and my misguided belief that they're doing anything in my best interest. :| <----still a sucker, too.

i would add that any place that presents itself as a loving, caring, accepting institution would encourage it's chattel to not judge each other based on if they donate or not. the idea that a blank piece of paper is even necessary for perception reasons makes my head spin. no one should give a shit or judge anyone else for not putting any money in the basket. faking it to look good seems so asinine and represents the attitude that rankles me the most about religion. it's a hypocritical double standard that's encouraged by the sheep dogs.

Oceansides said:
But his message is pretty universal- Love one another, treat one another right, and live peacefully.
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Oceansides said:
Yes, there are skewed and perverted forms of Christianity, but there are also many good, giving, loving Christians out there.
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this is what i got from Sunday school and the nuns at St. Gabriel's. i think it's the church itself that's the problem.

i think most people who practice religion are generally nice, generous, good-willed people (except on Sunday mornings, before the advent of DVR!).

cheesy, yes, but a line from the movie Stigmata represents this distinction to me: "I do not need an institution between me and God."

seriously. if you get the message, "be nice to other people, treat them how you would be treated, etc" wtf do i need to go to and pay a church for? have a little self confidence and believe that if you're living your life well and there actually is a spiritual afterlife you will be 'taken care of', so to speak.

anything anyone says about knowing what our afterlife will look like or that they can manipulate our place there is just making shit up for their own personal benefit. no, i will not help you with your princely fortune stuck in Nigeria......
 
Yay! Using fear and shame to control and extort money from the weak-minded! :party
 
jacksprat said:
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You're only forgiven if you do what he tells you to, it's not just believing in word, it's action that's required. That's why wide is the road but narrow the entrance, because there are a lot who call themselves Christians, and incredibly few who are. The pope for instance is certainly not a Christian.
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That's not quite right. You are forgiven for sins past present and future... period.

FUCK FUCK FUCK SHIT SHIT SHIT.... I'm forgiven.

Jesus Christ was the ultimate sacrifice to pay for mankind's sins.... "Jesus Saves". As a result, doing "acts of kindness" or "being good" and obeying the 10 commandments won't save you from the fires of hell.

You activate God's saving grace by "faith", which is an action based on belief sustained by confidence that God's promises will come true. So when you give money to the church, it's a sacrifice on your part. that money represents a bit of yourself that you have sacrificed through faith "knowing" that God will provide for your needs. You may even die not having obtained God's promises, but that fingernail grip on faith is what saves a person from eternal damnation in hell.

Faith also activates God's "Holy Spirit" which changes you and your former self; therefore, your "good deeds" come from God, not your own willpower.

It's not for anyone to judge who is a "real Christian" because God changes people in different ways. If the pope actions are actions of faith, then he will be saved from the fires of hell. If the pope's actions are one of good works from his own willpower, then he will go to hell.

Tithing is but one of many faithing actions. The rich cannot just tithe and expect to get to heaven....
 
who in their right fucking mind would give even one percent of their annual income to pay money for some cheap watered down wine sit on some uncomfortable seats, and listen to someone tell you what he thinks your mutual imaginary friend wants you to do-say-act-pray.
 
ar15600rr said:
who in their right fucking mind would give even one percent of their annual income to pay money for some cheap watered down wine sit on some uncomfortable seats, and listen to someone tell you what he thinks your mutual imaginary friend wants you to do-say-act-pray.
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could you at least pretend to be civil?
 
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