Workplace active shooting drill

[lefty]

I think you're reading into the copy-cat-craze (that usually occurs after school shootings) a bit much. Many many work places have emergency drills. It occurs everyday all over the nation. Would you rather they just brushed it off until an actual emergency occurs?

If someone's looking to shoot up their work place, they will. They don't need an emergency drill to muster up that courage.

I think the drills are to help other people in the event of a shooter, not trying to motivate someone to shoot up the place, ymmv.

I am the EH&S Dude at my workplace. I am preparing for just such a training. I already sent out a "Safety Short" addressing the topic. It was well received, with many people asking for more training.

 

[bojangle]

On a slightly fucked-up note about involving LE in active training drills.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news...eachers-shot-with-plastic-pellets/3231103002/

If you don't involve LE, you're leaving a big party of the equation out. The plan might not be consistent with what the police response will be. A training drill like the one listed above is just as much to help LE train as it is for the school.

Yeah, I read about that incident in the article above. The teachers were told they might be shot with simunitions, but I doubt any were really prepared for what happened. They should have preselected those willing to volunteer to be shot, and only sit those volunteers. They could prepare by wearing thick clothing, etc. Sounds like they maybe went a little too far. That's the type of training that maybe should stay within LE sand probably incorporate a less intense scenario when involving others.

As to the trauma some people can experience in active shooter drills, CPR and Fire drills aren't remotely close, fire doesn't chase you around outside and the CPR victim isn't about to do much either.

Properly planned and conducted an active shooter training scenario will seem as close to real as it gets. The responders will get into role and the victims often experience what would actually happen, emotion wise. Extreme care must be exercised to insure things don't get carried away because participants can sometimes get so far into character that unfortunate things can happen. Plus, those involved with simunitions should be wearing protective head gear. I wonder if that happened with the teachers.

For the die hards, sure, it's just a training situation but for others who only experience fear when their choice of makeup runs or they've zipped up and forgotten to put penis back in pants, it can have a real effect. This is why those planning and running active shooter training scenarios must know what they are doing and not just think they do.

I agree. Having gone through simunitions training:

1) It hurts pretty bad to get shot.

2) It is very realistic. About as close to the real thing as you can get.

Thus, for those who work in a field outside LE/military, simunitions training probably goes too far in taking some people way out of their comfort zone. I think it would be better to have some sort of presentation, followed by a light acting out of a plan that doesn't involve simunitions, when doing a workplace or school training. LE can do more realistic training on their own.

I once participated in training at a school to make it more realistic as a location we could actually respond to, however, we did it when school was closed, didn't use simunitions, and used Explorer volunteers. This was to practice coordinating tactics. Simunitions training had been done in a designated location.

 

[cfives]

What about what I had to say? Why does it seem that you feel it so worthless to explore what you and your coworkers would do in such a case?

What about fire drills and arson?

I doubt that people would congregate at the designated fire/fire drill meet up spot during an active shooter event, if that is what you are referring to. We live in the society that we create, capitulating to terror, and further normalizing this type of domestic terrorism moves our society towards a more dystopian one, IMO.

The health and safety dude did mention that he would grab a fire extinguisher, and find a place to hide/ fight with it if needed. This is a good idea, that I would not have thought of during an attack. However, having police show up and shoot me with pellet guns, strikes me as disturbingly fucked up on an individual, and societal level.

 

[bojangle]

I doubt that people would congregate at the designated fire/fire drill meet up spot during an active shooter event, if that is what you are referring to. We live in the society that we create, capitulating to terror, and further normalizing this type of domestic terrorism moves our society towards a more dystopian one, IMO.

Well, without training or any planning, that just might happen.

The health and safety dude did mention that he would grab a fire extinguisher, and find a place to hide/ fight with it if needed. This is a good idea, that I would not have thought of during an attack.

That's where coming up with a plan, going over options, and general things of what to do or not to do is beneficial. The trainer should understand what the police will likely do, but that doesn't necessarily mean the scenario needs to involve police in a training response. I'd just caution not to make assumptions about things where the police response might not be consistent with them, etc.

However, having police show up and shoot me with pellet guns, strikes me as disturbingly fucked up on an individual, and societal level.

I agree, that's probably taking it too far for the average person/workplace. Training like that can be traumatizing in and of itself. If one works in LE they need to be able to handle such training. But we shouldn't expect the same from the general population.

 

[byke]

I bet if he shows the HSE dude his wiener, he'll get out of training. In fact, there are very few workplace situations showing your wiener won't get you out of. Should be the go-to.

 

[cfives]

I bet if he shows the HSE dude his wiener, he'll get out of training. In fact, there are very few workplace situations showing your wiener won't get you out of. Should be the go-to.

That was the first thing that I tried, but all that I got out of it, was a $3/hr raise.

 

[byke]

I'm not sure if that makes your workplace awesome, or horrifying..

 

[Lucky Jones]

I'm not sure if that makes your workplace awesome, or horrifying..

Awesomely horrifying.

I DON'T want to work there, though.

 

[ctwo]

I doubt that people would congregate at the designated fire/fire drill meet up spot during an active shooter event, if that is what you are referring to. We live in the society that we create, capitulating to terror, and further normalizing this type of domestic terrorism moves our society towards a more dystopian one, IMO.

The health and safety dude did mention that he would grab a fire extinguisher, and find a place to hide/ fight with it if needed. This is a good idea, that I would not have thought of during an attack. However, having police show up and shoot me with pellet guns, strikes me as disturbingly fucked up on an individual, and societal level.

Maybe if you work in a small office with 7 people, everyone will know what is going on. I don't work at a Starbucks.

And I feel that is the society that we live in. This is not so much about what I think of as terrorism. This is home grown loons with weapons, they are everywhere and ready to twist off. Our society is ripping apart and making new seams.

When it starts to collapse, cops will disappear and there will be full on anarchy.

 

[bojangle]

I'm not sure if that makes your workplace awesome, or horrifying..

Yes you do. Don't lie!

 

[ontherearwheel]

If a person has the right to defend themselves with a firearm inside their home, why not outside the home....like in a workplace?

Why is the right to self defense with a firearm diminished once outside the home?

Guns can take life as well as give life.

What’s been overlooked is the other NZ shooting where the shooter was over powered and chased with their on gun.

Mass shooting will continue because very few times the victims are armed.

Do you really want to be at the mercy of a gunman? Seems that’s what most want.....mercy and luck to play a role in their self defense.

The best way to stop mass shootings is to shoot the shooter as soon as possible.
To do that, there needs be armed people on site at the time of the shootings.

My daughter works in a rather small, high end restaurant. Only two ways in.....the front door, the main entrance, and the exit out of the kitchen that’s not readily accessible to the public.

Anyone comes in the front and starts shooting.......there’s gonna be a lot of dead people because now the only way out is out the back......through the kitchen...a very narrow exit route.

So, next time your out, check your surrounding to see how easy it maybe or not to exit if someone comes in and starts shooting. Do you really want your life depending on how fast you run? And hope the exit is not so crowded that you can’t get out and get shot in the back.

 

[nebulous]

Is your company hiring ???

Our active shooter training is different, we're told to shoot back if it is clear. And a memo from the boss went around last year that we can carry to work if we want to, just have to complete the firearms training course first.

 

[nakedape]

Is your company hiring ???

May not be in this state but that brings me to this fun fact: there’s no prohibition on school personnel carrying with a permit on school grounds in my district.

We just trained for active shooters and then someone called in with gun claim so we got to run it. Two things came out of it. One was “lock blocks” for all doors so anyone can secure the door, and our temp pee/poo stations were easily overwhelmed.

On the irrational side, social media rumor proliferation sowed chaos and brought 30+ parents storming in to “save” their kids. Many were in uniform. It was nuts. Then the argument about taking devices from kids ensued. So the after effect was pretty ugly, but it was good to start conversations.

 

[Eldritch]

I'm not sure if that makes your workplace awesome, or horrifying..

Batwing?

 

[Schnellbandit]

May not be in this state but that brings me to this fun fact: there’s no prohibition on school personnel carrying with a permit on school grounds in my district.

We just trained for active shooters and then someone called in with gun claim so we got to run it. Two things came out of it. One was “lock blocks” for all doors so anyone can secure the door, and our temp pee/poo stations were easily overwhelmed.

On the irrational side, social media rumor proliferation sowed chaos and brought 30+ parents storming in to “save” their kids. Many were in uniform. It was nuts. Then the argument about taking devices from kids ensued. So the after effect was pretty ugly, but it was good to start conversations.

This ends in two different way unless we recognize causes and start dealing with them:

1. Everywhere we go someone will have a gun by job specification namely teachers, janitors (because there are plenty of them around), clerks, bus drivers etc. and we have full scale firefights in the hallways and venues or;

2. Police state so just in case someone does something stupid...

 

[nakedape]

This ends in two different way unless we recognize causes and start dealing with them:

1. Everywhere we go someone will have a gun by job specification namely teachers, janitors (because there are plenty of them around), clerks, bus drivers etc. and we have full scale firefights in the hallways and venues or;

2. Police state so just in case someone does something stupid...

Neither of those are attractive options. What are some causes I can mitigate in the school setting aside from being fair and balanced in discipline matters and grading?