BART Strike Thread

[zrex]

And because of your performance I am sure they have made more effort to keep you on the payroll than others that were given pink slips. You'll rise above the rest again or find something better because you have already proven to any future employer that you are very good at what you do. I know from being a manager that the people that are hired don't always have the most experience or highest level of education. Many times people are hired without any experience in the job they are applying for simply because they can show that they are able to learn new things, are reliable, and have great work references from previous or current employers.

Thats the only reason I have the job I have now.

I got layed off in December due to cutbacks in School District budget mess from the state budget mess!

Like i said, there are people who have less than I,

Just lucky to have a job.

 

[Arminius]

Thats the only reason I have the job I have now.

I got layed off in December due to cutbacks in School District budget mess from the state budget mess!

Like i said, there are people who have less than I,

Just lucky to have a job.

Those of us that have a job are the lucky ones right now! For what it's worth, I'm not so sure even $25/hour for transporting kids to and from school safely is a fair wage. I had a Class B license as a commercial driver years ago and know that it isn't a job just anyone can do, and do well. On top of that you are responsible all of those children's lives and have to deal with their idiot parents and disrespectful kids. There are many people who get paid just as much for working at a reception desk and don't have near as important skills or responsibilities.

I have a friend who is the manager of all Stanford transit shuttles and busses and he does very well and started out as a shuttle driver. I'll ask him if there are any openings and if so I'll send you the info.

 

[FreeRyde]

You guys can bash unions all you want, but talkj to anybody with a job worth having, and odds are they're union, even though union jobs are now something like 10% of the labor market.

Personally, I couldn't do what I do without my wife's SEIU-protected job with the SF public library. And if you think she's too stupid and lazy to get a "real" job let me just say, .

40-hour work week? Thank unions
Anti-child labor laws? Thank unions
Workplace safety regs? Thank Unions
An eight hour workday
A five day work week
Paid sick days, vacation days, and holidays
Family and medical leave
Health, life, and disability insurance
A pension
Safe and healthy working conditions
Proper job training

Union, union, union, union union.

Oh, but now we don't need them anymore? Working people's wages are as low as they've been since the 1960s, health benefits are being slashed, and the minimum wage, even at $7.25 an hour, is a joke. If you think that management and capital would let us keep these things, you are a sucker. We'd all be making $1.25 an hour in a second. You think Nike cares if their workers in China barely make enough money to live on and can only dream of buying its shitty sneakers?

Unions may be imperfect but they are the ONLY thing protecting the great mass of workers from hideous exploitation a la China, India, etc. Think about that the next time you say "unions have outlived their usefullness."

Oh, and before somebody jumps into my shit for getting political on this thread, jump on GsxrGirl:



May I respectfully submit that you know about as much about labor relations as Var knows about bedding in brakes?

Our youth needs to start work earlier! Get some real life experience before they are 19 and heading to college..... Let um mine for coal, it'll kill off the weak.

 

[maskmarney]

So much vitriol! I'm disappointed that so many BARFers are so vehemently anti-union, and thus so opposed to workers' rights(Long Live Walmart!). It is, to be sure, a bad time for a union to strike, owing both to the stumbling economy and to the public resentment and uproar which is sure to be expressed by all commuters on Monday. Yet, compare, for a moment, the discomfort and severe inconvenience this strike will certainly cause the Bay Area with the disruptions to the global economy caused, in the last two years, by commercial banks, investment banks, private equity firms, and hedge funds; those who work in the upper reaches of these institutions have, with rare exceptions, only contempt for all other organizations, institutions, and individuals. These individuals, furthermore, are highly educated, graduate from the most prestigious academic institutions, and act, one might say, with a cohesiveness similar to union workers, although with vastly greater adverse affect.
I am particularly amused by all the BARFers whose reasoning can be reduced to: Creativity=Income=Net Worth=Me and My White Collar Job.
Hooray! Our capacity for vain self-delusion is almost insuperable!

 

[boney]

I talked with my uncle who a director of the Department of Parking and Transit.

He is the absolute opposite of the people on this board: calm and reasonable. I couldn't bait him for a second.

He made two very good points:

1. He mentioned that the upper management of BART is overpaid. The BART director makes as much as the head of the New York Transit System, which is all the buses, all the subways, and all the trains (like LIRR and Metro North).

2. There isn't money in the budget for what the BART workers want. And that they have no leverage considering the economy.

Also, what BART and the news agencies aren't telling you (because it doesn't make the union workers the villans they're trying to portray them as) is that salaries and related expenses are somewhere around 50% (IIRC) of the BART operating cost. They also won't tell you that BART management spent an ungodly amount of money in the last few years looking into an extension for the Oakland Airport that went against all common sense (and advisement by several groups.) This was money that was basically thrown away, and it's loss has helped bring BART to it's current situation. Let's not forget how poor management decisions play into the hand of the organizations budget, especially since the union has absolutely no input on that.

 

[boney]

There are a LOT of people earning less than the median income in the Bay Area. Those CEO's had the drive and smarts to claw their way to the top. So maybe they're not 100 times smarter than me... but they sure put a hell of a lot of focus on their careers to get there that I wasn't nearly as motivated to do (way too much fun to be had on dirtbikes, streetbikes, and horses!!).

I respectfully disagree. Many of the CEOs of the superbig corporations are board members of other superbig corporations. While the average wages, benefits, and hours of their employees has been falling, people are being laid off and the companies earnings are plummiting due to STUPID decisions, the CEOs have been giving each other pay raises and massive bonuses by approving them for each other as board members. The old adage "if you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" runs rampant in the boardroom.

Some say "that's what the market pays" but it's not really. See, it's just like politics. Do enough favors for enough people then they owe you (or you own them) and they'll approve anything you ask for.

What I can't figure out is how all these really really important high salaried people in high stress CEO jobs aren't so busy handing their companies business that they don't have time to sit on the board for another company or two.

 

[weak_link]

How many of you who are saying BARF workers have no education have actually looked at their job postings? Many of them do require a college degree.

That said, I think them striking while thousands of people are loosing their jobs or taking pay cuts sucks.

 

[sick50ford]

union haters. lol.

I love beung part of my union. sheet metal workers 104.
our leaders only make 15 % over scale. but they do seem to win the grand prizes at all thw big events. its cool though. good people

 

[I'm OaklandLion]

Unions have their role. I don't have a problem with unions. I do have a problem with BART striking. Timing is everything, and now is not the time to strike.

I used to be okay with corporate bonuses, but I think we all need to admit, corporate greed has gone too far. Corporate boards used to be the shareholders watchdog, the boards used to check compensation (compensation committees). But, look at Merrill Lynch, AIG, etc, etc, etc at the bonuses paid out. THAT IS JUST FUCKING WRONG!

Honestly, I'm saddened to read about zrex getting a 30% pay cut. It's just not right.

I don't know what the solution is with BART. But, I look at BART as an essential, critical service. I'd like our governor to order them back to work. I'd like our President to order them back to work. And if they don't. Then fire them. If Pres Reagan can fire the air traffic controllers and there were no plane crashes, then fire the BART strikers. I'm serious.

Whether the BART worker averages $102m/year or $90m/year, that's a lot of money when we have 10% unemployment.

 

[Ironbutt]

I got a raise this month..

 

[Gabe]

Calling out my name specifically & blaming me for your rant is jumping my shit, Gabe. Again, I've got just as much right to my opinion as you do yours- and just because I don't agree with you doesn't make my opinion "bullshit". We don't see eye to eye, but I'm not being disrespectful to you. You want to champion the BART unions, that's your right. Personally, I think they're being seriously overpaid for the non-existent skillsets required to do their jobs. I mean, really- do you honestly believe that their skills and education warrant their current rate of pay?

I never championed the BART union (and BTW two other BART unions are not striking), I was challenging the BS assertion that "unions have outlived their usefulness", which by any objective measure, is BS.

 

[Gabe]

but we also know that he is envious of people who have more than he thinks he will ever attain.

So you're the tiny voice inside my head! That's why you know exactly how I think!

Can you please leave? I think you're standing on my left eyeball and it's giving me a headache.

 

[Ozymandias]

So much vitriol! I'm disappointed that so many BARFers are so vehemently anti-union, and thus so opposed to workers' rights(Long Live Walmart!). It is, to be sure, a bad time for a union to strike, owing both to the stumbling economy and to the public resentment and uproar which is sure to be expressed by all commuters on Monday. Yet, compare, for a moment, the discomfort and severe inconvenience this strike will certainly cause the Bay Area with the disruptions to the global economy caused, in the last two years, by commercial banks, investment banks, private equity firms, and hedge funds; those who work in the upper reaches of these institutions have, with rare exceptions, only contempt for all other organizations, institutions, and individuals. These individuals, furthermore, are highly educated, graduate from the most prestigious academic institutions, and act, one might say, with a cohesiveness similar to union workers, although with vastly greater adverse affect.
I am particularly amused by all the BARFers whose reasoning can be reduced to: Creativity=Income=Net Worth=Me and My White Collar Job.
Hooray! Our capacity for vain self-delusion is almost insuperable!

That's not what we are saying at all. I'm pro worker, obviously as I am one. But there are plenty of better ways to settle disputes. Like court, find another job, write letters... yadda yadda. I personally have been jerked around by 2 different unions and found them to be utterly useless. Because of the UAW union I lost a pretty decent job due to the plant shutting down and relocating to a non-union location all because they demanded way too much money every time and was all "let's wildcat strike!" all the time. I've seen it time and time again. Teamsters did a strike and "scabs" came in and took my other job while I'm sitting out there on the picket line getting strike pay. I finally had to find a real paying job because as a union member I wasn't allowed to cross the line... it was teamsters after all. Same thing happened to a friend of mine's dad while in middle school 20+ years ago, and you want to know something? Technically they are STILL on strike and every once in a while someone will be sitting at the entrance to the parking lot with a sign! How did that help them?

The ATU and BART employees are stupid to strike in the current economy and with the other 2 BART lines having settled. It's only going to strengthen the commission's position. They may very well find themselves without jobs. If I were on the BART commission I would literally de-unionize if they strike. BUT at the same time, I also wouldn't be giving myself a pay raise in the current economy... go figure.

 

[vaara]

So you're the tiny voice inside my head! That's why you know exactly how I think!

Can you please leave? I think you're standing on my left eyeball and it's giving me a headache.

*cue Chief Inspector Dreyfus eyeball twitch*

Oh look, here's some factual information -- from BART management, no less -- that contradicts the widely-stated claim that BART workers are the highest-paid in the country.

http://bartlabor.com/?cat=12

That applies only to mechanics. Most BART workers do earn 20-40% more than the national average for similar occupations, but the median wage in the Bay Area -- not to mention the cost of living -- is also significantly higher than the national average. I can't find the median-wage numbers, but if my suspicions are true that we here in the Bay Area generally earn (and pay) 40% more than our counterparts elsewhere, then the argument could be made that BART workers are underpaid.

Personally, I wouldn't want some untrained monkey earning $10 an hour driving my train through the Transbay Tube during an earthquake. It's true that their job involves a lot of sitting around doing nothing, but the same can be said of LEOs, airline pilots, etc. And I suspect that if everyone's pay scales were suddenly adjusted to reflect time spent actually *working* (as opposed to drinking coffee, texting, BARFing, etc.), then many of us would be in for a rude awakening indeed.

 

[Ozymandias]

...
I used to be okay with corporate bonuses, but I think we all need to admit, corporate greed has gone too far. Corporate boards used to be the shareholders watchdog, the boards used to check compensation (compensation committees). But, look at Merrill Lynch, AIG, etc, etc, etc at the bonuses paid out. THAT IS JUST FUCKING WRONG!

...

Whether the BART worker averages $102m/year or $90m/year, that's a lot of money when we have 10% unemployment.

+1gagillion billion heh

For someone to push buttons all day that's a staggering amount. There really isn't a huge amount of skill required to make sure a bunch of vehicles follow their tracks on time. Multitasking, sure, skill ... it's like playing with a giant train set or race track and what guy over 30 didn't get to do that a little growing up. I'm betting just about anyone could be trained to do those jobs in 6 months or less. Granted there are some skilled labor jobs with BART as well, but c'mon, seriously?

 

[Cheyenne]

If I were on the BART commission I would literally de-unionize if they strike. BUT at the same time, I also wouldn't be giving myself a pay raise in the current economy... go figure.

Now you would make a lousy corporate overlord...

If you don't give yourself a pay raise when times are tight, how are you going to be valuable enough to save the day!?!?!

 

[atoyf]

I believe that unions have long since outlived their usefulness.
As far as BART is concerned, I think every employee who strikes should be fired. With unemployment as high as it is, there are qualified, intelligent people out there who would take those jobs in a New York minute, do them well, and be appreciative they have a job. I have a hard time feeling any empathy for people making that much money for basically unskilled labor whining that they aren't making enough money. At least you have jobs, you pathetic pantywaists! :|

totally agreed

 

[serazin]

Or they went to college.

I have carried a union card for most of my working life. ...and yes, I did go to college, so just because I choose to actually work for a living doesn't mean I am stupid or somehow a less worthy member of society. I know several people like me who choose to use their hands, or dive big rigs, who have degrees but don't want to consort with the suits, or in my case refuse to use education as an excuse to do things that affect the lives of "the little people."

I have worked both union and non-union work places and some of the non-union were great places to work. So, there can be good work places without unions.

But, EVERY place I have worked that has a union had some incident or string of incidents in its' past where they treated their workers in such a manner that caused their employees to feel the need to unionize.

(One of the best quotes I ever heard on this came from a very high level Proter and Gamble HR guy. He said "Workers do not create unions, management does.")

But when it comes to BART, this seems to be an extreme example of what can go wrong with unionization in that there are some people making way too much money for some of those jobs.

 

[sanjuro]

I hear an interview with a person from SEIU, who agreed to a new contract.

If you read between the lines, like "We are not going strike but will not cross picket lines", she did not support the strike at all.

 

[Marco_82]

The Unions dont ask for more money for the workers.
They get paied by the workers so if the worker makes more money the Union does ;o) Easy from here or?

But I don't know why they are making such a big thing out of it. If I would sit in a BART Station reading newspaper all day and if a customer asks a question don't have an answer I would be happy with half the money they make right now ;o)
(Not talking about the train operators and maintenance personal, they have some responsibilities at least trie to keep the people on board allive ;o) )

Just my 2 cents.

I aggree If they strike for more money hire people that are not unionized.