Bay area housing market

[Agent Orange]

Perhaps a mod could pull up old threads from 2006-2008. I remember this exact exchange (not from you).

Markets, real estate in particular, is cyclical. Prices will drop. The question is how much it will drop.

I started looking for a house during the 2011-12 downturn. The last time the "bubble" popped. I wanted to take advantage of the situation, like of people here are trying to do. My budget was roughly around $450K. By the time I was able to find something a year later, prices had already jumped $100K.

 

[bojangle]

7% is high anyways lol, I think 6% is median and practically anybody will do 5%. Like I said, over 300k there's no way I wouldn't just do a flat fee place. You got got

One is not necessarily saving money if they ever up selling for less than a realtor could have got for them. Not to mention, if you don't at least agree to pay the 3% buyer's agent commission, on top of your first fee, you might have a really hard time finding buyers.

A realtor does a lot more than just fill out the paperwork. IMO, a good one is worth it. Especially if you need to sell within a time period as you're buying another place on contingency. (Which I happen to be in the process of once the new house is built next year.)

 

[JesasaurusRex]

One is not necessarily saving money if they ever up selling for less than a realtor could have got for them. Not to mention, if you don't at least agree to pay the 3% buyer's agent commission, on top of your first fee, you might have a really hard time finding buyers.

A realtor does a lot more than just fill out the paperwork. IMO, a good one is worth it. Especially if you need to sell within a time period as you're buying another place on contingency. (Which I happen to be in the process of once the new house is built next year.)

In a different market I MIGHT agree with you, in the current market with multiple offers over asking the highest offer is typically the most somebody can possibly afford, or is willing to afford, for said property. All recently sold data and current list prices are available online to any schmuck.

I think the sales pitch that realtors try to give, the same one you repeated, is just that, a sales pitch. The internet has changed the game dramatically for many professions, and realtors are just trying to prevent the inevitable. What we're seeing is a painfully slow death of an industry, at least how we remember it, with the industry fighting tooth and nail trying to still charge prices for services that they are no longer privy to.

They don't do much that a seller or buyer can't do themselves. Like I said, at this point in time you're paying them to gather the proper forms (you still fill them out for the most part) and handle appointments like open house and escrow. Pay them accordingly.

 

[Mr. White]

Serious question. Without a realtor, where/how do you list your home for sale? Only realtors can list homes on MLS, correct?

I'm curious if anyone here has sold or bought a home without a realtor and what their experience was.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

The real value of the realtor is also in the shit tons of paperwork they do. Every time I made an offer, even on the same place, it took a whole new set of papers. Plus they handled all the closing details with the title company...it did cost thousands in closing costs but I wouldn't have done it myself to save money. Maybe find a realtor that will split the commission with you?

 

[Kornholio]

Don't most realtors just push the paperwork off to some office assistant anyway?

 

[wazzuFreddo]

If I were to sell my house, I would use the same Realtor I used to buy my house. It would be worth the money. Especially when negotiating.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

If I were to sell my house, I would use the same Realtor I used to buy my house. It would be worth the money. Especially when negotiating.

Me too . The service continued after the sale ended, she regularly updates me with other similar houses in my complex going on sale etc. If not her there is a realtor in my complex who has sold several of the houses here, plus he owns one himself.

 

[Yakoo752]

One is not necessarily saving money if they ever up selling for less than a realtor could have got for them. Not to mention, if you don't at least agree to pay the 3% buyer's agent commission, on top of your first fee, you might have a really hard time finding buyers.

A realtor does a lot more than just fill out the paperwork. IMO, a good one is worth it. Especially if you need to sell within a time period as you're buying another place on contingency. (Which I happen to be in the process of once the new house is built next year.)

Not in this market really. I've seen commission get pushed to the buyer but those were all bid war situations

They don't do much that a seller or buyer can't do themselves. Like I said, at this point in time you're paying them to gather the proper forms (you still fill them out for the most part) and handle appointments like open house and escrow. Pay them accordingly.

I made an offer on a home 2 weeks ago - I only signed paperwork, the realtor filled everything out.

 

[mercurial]

Me too . The service continued after the sale ended, she regularly updates me with other similar houses in my complex going on sale etc.

That's not a service, dude. That's a marketing expense she incurs to make sure she stays top-of-mind when you next decide to buy or sell a house.

 

[Dubbington]

My dad has his brokers license if anyone wants me to run properties in the CCC or Alameda county on the MLS. It was his first line of work in Tahoe before he got into construction.

Some of the disclosures I come across would blow you away.

 

[bojangle]

In a different market I MIGHT agree with you, in the current market with multiple offers over asking the highest offer is typically the most somebody can possibly afford, or is willing to afford, for said property. All recently sold data and current list prices are available online to any schmuck.

I think the sales pitch that realtors try to give, the same one you repeated, is just that, a sales pitch. The internet has changed the game dramatically for many professions, and realtors are just trying to prevent the inevitable. What we're seeing is a painfully slow death of an industry, at least how we remember it, with the industry fighting tooth and nail trying to still charge prices for services that they are no longer privy to.

They don't do much that a seller or buyer can't do themselves. Like I said, at this point in time you're paying them to gather the proper forms (you still fill them out for the most part) and handle appointments like open house and escrow. Pay them accordingly.

Have you done this personally? Real life examples? Unless you already have a buyer that you know lined up, how are you going to find buyers? Can you list on MLS yourself? I don't think so, but I guess you might be able to with a flat rate broker, right? Even still, where to the buyers come from? Are they unrepresented buyers that are looking to close the deal themselves? I'm doing that / have done that with new home builders, but I don't think I would on the secondary existing home market. So, assuming most buyers have a realtor, are you, as a do it yourself seller, agreeing to pay the buying agents 3% comission? Or are you expecting the buyer to do that? If the buyer is expected to do that, why would the buyer, or their realtor, be interested in working with you? I mean, they might in a really crazy market with low supply, like I suppose we have now. But even if that's the case, isn't there a good chance you'd end up selling for lower than the 6% you'd pay if you went the traditional route?

 

[Mr. White]

Have you done this personally? Real life examples? Unless you already have a buyer that you know lined up, how are you going to find buyers? Can you list on MLS yourself? I don't think so, but I guess you might be able to with a flat rate broker, right? Even still, where to the buyers come from? Are they unrepresented buyers that are looking to close the deal themselves? I'm doing that / have done that with new home builders, but I don't think I would on the secondary existing home market. So, assuming most buyers have a realtor, are you, as a do it yourself seller, agreeing to pay the buying agents 3% comission? Or are you expecting the buyer to do that? If the buyer is expected to do that, why would the buyer, or their realtor, be interested in working with you? I mean, they might in a really crazy market with low supply, like I suppose we have now. But even if that's the case, isn't there a good chance you'd end up selling for lower than the 6% you'd pay if you went the traditional route?

You just throw up an add on CL and BARF! What could go wrong??!

 

[mercurial]

bojangle, the main value add of RE agents in yesteryear was their ability to act as a market-maker. You couldn't find your buyer (or seller) without them. The internet has basically destroyed their control on the discovery process. Now they are simply providing paperwork services and sitting around during open houses.

 

[Mr. White]

bojangle, the main value add of RE agents in yesteryear was their ability to act as a market-maker. You couldn't find your buyer (or seller) without them. The internet has basically destroyed their control on the discovery process. Now they are simply providing paperwork services and sitting around during open houses.

They also advertise your home by listing it on MLS, which then gets listed on all the "retail" real estate websites.

 

[JesasaurusRex]

They also advertise your home by listing it on MLS, which then gets listed on all the "retail" real estate websites.

There are brokerages that do this for like 100 dollars.

 

[JesasaurusRex]

Have you done this personally? Real life examples? Unless you already have a buyer that you know lined up, how are you going to find buyers? Can you list on MLS yourself? I don't think so, but I guess you might be able to with a flat rate broker, right? Even still, where to the buyers come from? Are they unrepresented buyers that are looking to close the deal themselves? I'm doing that / have done that with new home builders, but I don't think I would on the secondary existing home market. So, assuming most buyers have a realtor, are you, as a do it yourself seller, agreeing to pay the buying agents 3% comission? Or are you expecting the buyer to do that? If the buyer is expected to do that, why would the buyer, or their realtor, be interested in working with you? I mean, they might in a really crazy market with low supply, like I suppose we have now. But even if that's the case, isn't there a good chance you'd end up selling for lower than the 6% you'd pay if you went the traditional route?

On phone right now, type more later

 

[Ogier le Danois]

I started looking for a house during the 2011-12 downturn. The last time the "bubble" popped. I wanted to take advantage of the situation, like of people here are trying to do. My budget was roughly around $450K. By the time I was able to find something a year later, prices had already jumped $100K.

Supply is certainly another facet.

That doesn't mean real estate isn't cyclical. Prices will drop and then prices will rise, then they will drop again.

The trick is being lucky enough to buy and sell at the right times and having the resources to do so.

 

[JesasaurusRex]

Have you done this personally?

Sold without a realtor? No, the home I have sold wasn't worth enough where going with a flat rate broker would have saved me any money. It would have been pretty close to break even so decided to go the traditional route. We did almost try to sell ourselves with just using a brokerage to list the property on the MLS (<$1000), but we lived out of state at the time, my travelling for work and the wife being 4 hours away from the property in question justified the expense for us. That being said, i'd wager my situation is a far cry for the typical home owners.

Unless you already have a buyer that you know lined up, how are you going to find buyers? Can you list on MLS yourself?

Still need a brokerage, but you can literally get them to list it on the MLS for very few dollars (<$1000). Meaning anybody with an internet connection can show it. If you don't want it on the MLS and just want it on zillow and a few other sites you can do that for around $100. Putting it on the MLS means it'll pop up everywhere though.

So, assuming most buyers have a realtor, are you, as a do it yourself seller, agreeing to pay the buying agents 3% comission? Or are you expecting the buyer to do that? If the buyer is expected to do that, why would the buyer, or their realtor, be interested in working with you? I mean, they might in a really crazy market with low supply, like I suppose we have now. But even if that's the case, isn't there a good chance you'd end up selling for lower than the 6% you'd pay if you went the traditional route?

In this market, i don't think you'd have any issues getting the buyer to pay their agent. Or you could pay it and save 50%, minus the cost of listing the home on the MLS. The demand is so huge I'm pretty sure you'd get buyers bending over backwards to pay their own realtors.

Lets say you pay it, at 500k home sale saving 3% puts an extra $15000 in your pocket minus $1000 if you decide to have a brokerage put it on the MLS for you. I do hear realtors don't like this though because the buying realtor winds up doing the work for two people . He's pretty much printing out twice as many papers more than likely. I believe it, but it is what it is.

 

[bojangle]

Sold without a realtor? No, the home I have sold wasn't worth enough where going with a flat rate broker would have saved me any money. It would have been pretty close to break even so decided to go the traditional route. We did almost try to sell ourselves with just using a brokerage to list the property on the MLS (<$1000), but we lived out of state at the time, my travelling for work and the wife being 4 hours away from the property in question justified the expense for us. That being said, i'd wager my situation is a far cry for the typical home owners.


Still need a brokerage, but you can literally get them to list it on the MLS for very few dollars (<$1000). Meaning anybody with an internet connection can show it. If you don't want it on the MLS and just want it on zillow and a few other sites you can do that for around $100. Putting it on the MLS means it'll pop up everywhere though.



In this market, i don't think you'd have any issues getting the buyer to pay their agent. Or you could pay it and save 50%, minus the cost of listing the home on the MLS. The demand is so huge I'm pretty sure you'd get buyers bending over backwards to pay their own realtors.

Lets say you pay it, at 500k home sale saving 3% puts an extra $15000 in your pocket minus $1000 if you decide to have a brokerage put it on the MLS for you. I do hear realtors don't like this though because the buying realtor winds up doing the work for two people . He's pretty much printing out twice as many papers more than likely. I believe it, but it is what it is.

I know it's certainly possible, and I agree with everything you wrote, at least in theory. I still think there's a good chance you'd end up selling for less than the $14,000 you'd probably save it you go it alone. You'd better know what you're doing, have time to invest, and hope it sells quickly. The longer it's on the market, the more likely it is listed overpriced. People will also assume something is wrong with the property if it doesn't sell fairly quickly. Interest will drop off after a while. Then you have the paperwork, disclosures, contingencies, funding. I think it's certainly possible to make out better listing it without an agent. I also think the average person will make out worse without an agent.

If the buyer has to pay his own realtor fees, you'd better believe they'd be looking to discount that in the offer to buy the house.

The internet certainly killed the travel agent industry, but purchasing airfare, hotel, and vacation packages is a LOT easier for the average person than a real estate transaction. I don't see realtors going the way of travel agents.