bitcoins

[stangmx13]

The stock market is a bit different since (in theory at least) the underlying companies are creating value. But yeah, often the stock market is nothing more than zero sum gambling.

the underlying companies are trying to creating value, at least they better be. I think a lot of the coins legit want to be a replacement for fiat, which IMO would also be creating value. the other coins that have supposed uses for things also potentially create value. they are providing a service after all. its just not widely accepted value.

if I had said "commodities market", I suspect there'd be no discussion. a commodity seems to literally be a thing that does nothing until someone wants it for something. that prob describes all coins at the lowest level. only some seem to want to do more.

 

[Volcomism]

Please keep it up. You're true colors are finally showing.

We've known his colors. We're just commenting on yours.

So back on topic. Why do you think Monero and Ethereum are good long term investments?

Both of these are extremely risky, but they've got a decent foundation and actually have decent use cases behind them.

Simple guide to understand ETH's purpose: https://medium.com/@ConsenSys/a-101...ming-smart-contracts-on-ethereum-695d15c1dab4

Where Monero Started: https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

 

[Entoptic]

We've known his colors. We're just commenting on yours.



Both of these are extremely risky, but they've got a decent foundation and actually have decent use cases behind them.

Simple guide to understand ETH's purpose: https://medium.com/@ConsenSys/a-101...ming-smart-contracts-on-ethereum-695d15c1dab4

Where Monero Started: https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

What about my colors? Please elaborate.

I'm also a little confused Volc. You first state Eth and Monero are good long term investments and then in this post say they're high risk. Are you saying these are high risk, long term investments?

What are your thoughts on Cryptokitties and Eth?

If you don't mind sharing, how much money have you made in the past 5 years? It seems like you should be a millionaire right now. Are you?

 

[MikeyRocks]

Getting too damn serious in here. Here's a little humor to lighten things up goddamnit.

 

[Volcomism]

What about my colors? Please elaborate.

Naive and a very poor listener.

I'm also a little confused Volc. You first state Eth and Monero are good long term investments and then in this post say they're high risk. Are you saying these are high risk, long term investments?

What are your thoughts on Cryptokitties and Eth?

If you can't explain as to WHY your investment fell or rose, then yes... it's high risk. However, both Ethereum and Monero have decent use-cases and have a very solid developer community supporting it, so it makes for a much stronger case than most of the coins on the market.

RE: Cryptokitties and Eth - They're utilizing the blockchain and growing. What's not to hate? As long as they expose the pros/cons of ETH along the way.

How much money have you made in the past 5 years? It seems like you should be a millionaire right now. Are you?

I was very lucky and bought BTC when it was $3 USD and primarily used to purchased Usenet subscriptions Then I got started early with the KNC miners back in 2012-2013. Regardless, how much I've earned shouldn't be a concern of yours at all.

 

[Mike95060]

Before every yout tube video watch there is a commercial that says, "come mine bitcoin and etherium with us!" In a very loud and obnoxious semi british voice. I'm not trying to be a debbie downer but, I think maybe the crypto market is approaching the selachimorpha launch ramp.

Edit, anyone go big on Shiba Inu's?

http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/05/bitco...eing-invented-to-mock-cryptocurrency-7207630/

 

[afm199]

I came to check the thread and this is part of the problem with barf. Good old fashion trolling. I'll go back under my rock for a few more weeks and then check back to see if any real discussion is happening besides all the "fools and their money" garbage. Just let people invest how they want. Why do barf users have to be so condescending? Maybe childish is a better word.

Have you actually read this thread? I and many Barfers have discussed, at length, pros and cons of Bitcoin and the issues. The Barfer to whom I addressed that comment has repeatedly claimed to be picked on, misunderstood, and that we somehow hate him, bitcoin, and are ganging up on him. He's also the biggest Bitcoin razzle dazzle cheerleader here. So, that may be your impression, but as far as I am concerned, it was a valid response to someone who continually claims victimhood and misunderstanding where it doesn't exist.

If someone is shilling, pardon me, vehemently defending and promoting Bitcoin and the industry, yes, I will address that and point out possible flaws and faults. Which I have. If that same person insists that they are victim because, gasp, people are pointing out flaws in their thinking and methodology, well, too bad....

 

[afm199]

I wouldn't call that a distinct difference.

ownership of what? a thing that people says has value cuz it does a thing. thats not a difference. coin is also a thing that people say has value cuz it does a thing. id propose that the company actually requires a lot more steps to produce the thing, its just already setup so u think its simpler. at least with BTC, I can get USD in my checking acct in a few days or buy something w/ it at a few places right now.

a share of earnings is different. Ive owned a handful of stock and never received earnings. which way is more common? is this not a drop in a bucket?

IMO, value based on speculation is one step away from arbitrary, just like coin. I own founders stock in 2 tech companies and I am shocked at their valuations. one company produces very very little, they just plan to, and their valuation is 6M. another had revenue over 800K last year and their valuation is near 11M. there are a lot fewer people propping up the value of those 2 companies than with BTC.

I don't know. Most of the stock I own returns 4-6% yearly in dividends. I also get to vote on directors, issues, and how the company is run. I buy value. I can borrow against my stocks, quite heavily on margin. (Try that on Bitcoin, lol) So yes, my stocks pay me money, and they are money. All I have to do is write a check, and I don't have to sell a chunk to do so.

If you are not getting a decent return on your stocks, you own the wrong stocks, most likely. All of the Dow 30 pay dividends. Most major corporations do.

Which means I might buy GE, which may be the most fantastic turnaround of the year. I won't buy a stock that changed its name to include some Bitcoin/Cryptocurrency buzz word, because that's idiocy. Or gambling. I prefer to gamble on solid stocks, not on how long Ajax Parsnip Company and Bitcoin Trust will last.

As to the founder stocks, good luck. If you hit a winner you might score big.

Bitcoin is gambling. The Stock Market is probably gambling, but it's probably several orders of magnitude safer. And the return is quite a bit less.

It's your money, do with it as you wish.

 

[MikeyRocks]

I don't know. Most of the stock I own returns 4-6% yearly in dividends. I also get to vote on directors, issues, and how the company is run. I buy value. I can borrow against my stocks, quite heavily on margin. (Try that on Bitcoin, lol) So yes, my stocks pay me money, and they are money. All I have to do is write a check, and I don't have to sell a chunk to do so.

If you are not getting a decent return on your stocks, you own the wrong stocks, most likely. All of the Dow 30 pay dividends. Most major corporations do.

Which means I might buy GE, which may be the most fantastic turnaround of the year. I won't buy a stock that changed its name to include some Bitcoin/Cryptocurrency buzz word, because that's idiocy. Or gambling. I prefer to gamble on solid stocks, not on how long Ajax Parsnip Company and Bitcoin Trust will last.

As to the founder stocks, good luck. If you hit a winner you might score big.

Bitcoin is gambling. The Stock Market is probably gambling, but it's probably several orders of magnitude safer. And the return is quite a bit less.

It's your money, do with it as you wish.

Sounds about right to me. I've got a significant chunk of money in stocks, mostly safe stocks with a few plays in some aggressive but risky ones. But crypto has been all about gambling for me as I've said before. Right now I'm playing a game of crypto roulette where I have anywhere from $1k-3k invested in about 16 alt coins. Don't need all of them to hit, but if even two or three of them do well over the course of 2018, I'm a happy camper. If they all disappear one day, it's all house money so no big deal.

 

[UDRider]

Visa puts a lid on using crypto backed CCs. link

 

[jiffy]

I don't know. Most of the stock I own returns 4-6% yearly in dividends. I also get to vote on directors, issues, and how the company is run. I buy value. I can borrow against my stocks, quite heavily on margin. (Try that on Bitcoin, lol) So yes, my stocks pay me money, and they are money. All I have to do is write a check, and I don't have to sell a chunk to do so.

If you are not getting a decent return on your stocks, you own the wrong stocks, most likely. All of the Dow 30 pay dividends. Most major corporations do.

Which means I might buy GE, which may be the most fantastic turnaround of the year. I won't buy a stock that changed its name to include some Bitcoin/Cryptocurrency buzz word, because that's idiocy. Or gambling. I prefer to gamble on solid stocks, not on how long Ajax Parsnip Company and Bitcoin Trust will last.

As to the founder stocks, good luck. If you hit a winner you might score big.

Bitcoin is gambling. The Stock Market is probably gambling, but it's probably several orders of magnitude safer. And the return is quite a bit less.

It's your money, do with it as you wish.

Almost all wrong.

Many stocks give no voting rights and if they do, you better own a large chunk for it to matter.

You can borrow against bitcoin for margin, very easily. Google it.

There are a good number of alt coins that pay "dividends" or reward the holder in some way.

You should look into some of the tech behind some of the alt coins, it is really quite amazing the ideas they are trying to implement or have already started to implement.

The stock market is manipulated to an extent that most of us want to ignore. The cyrpotocurrency market being unregulated is the same or worse. Both "investements" take risk. Betting on a new IPO or company like Amazon or Apple was a very risky move in the early days. Hindsight being 20/20, people that did so heavily, look like fortune tellers. The same can be said about those who mined or bought Bitcoin in 2010. There are many millionaires being made in cryptocurrencies, and many that will lose a good amount.

The bottom line is that crypto trading is very risky, but it has been paying off for many just like the stock market. The crypto markets are new and no one has real insight into what can or will happen. But from the technology that is being "produced" it looks like crypto will be looked at like the internet or computers in the early days and picking the right horse to bet on will net those holding in a big way.

 

[Entoptic]

Have you actually read this thread? I and many Barfers have discussed, at length, pros and cons of Bitcoin and the issues. The Barfer to whom I addressed that comment has repeatedly claimed to be picked on, misunderstood, and that we somehow hate him, bitcoin, and are ganging up on him. He's also the biggest Bitcoin razzle dazzle cheerleader here. So, that may be your impression, but as far as I am concerned, it was a valid response to someone who continually claims victimhood and misunderstanding where it doesn't exist.

If someone is shilling, pardon me, vehemently defending and promoting Bitcoin and the industry, yes, I will address that and point out possible flaws and faults. Which I have. If that same person insists that they are victim because, gasp, people are pointing out flaws in their thinking and methodology, well, too bad....

I apologize everyone but this is getting old.

Ernie you bring up very interesting points. I had to go back and read this entire thread again. Thanks for the perspective.

My first post #104 corrected someone that had the wrong information about btc. After that I've contributed to helping people understand exchanges, open accounts, talked about different ICOs, which platforms folks they're using, defended this thread against folks like yourself, mentioned CME and CBOE coming into the mix, informed folks of how to handle taxes, listed whalepool's youtube channel, met people outside of barf and even offered up my discord to talk crypto.

Your first post #670 is basically mocking everyone and crypto in general. What have you contributed to this thread? Honestly, what? The only thing I can see is someone that doesn't have shit to do but come in and crap all over everyone. Yea you had a few interactive posts but before you joined the conversation was interactive. Now not so many people converse because negativity has once again entered into another barf thread. I'm not saying you're the only one that had done but you're a part of it. Those same negative people finally ran out of topics to shit on so then they started shitting on people.

Best part is I called you out on it #854, you insulted me, continued it and yet here you are still doing the same thing and someone I'm the fucking victim?

lulz at the victim talk. Your broad statements and constant shitpost are really getting old. Why can't you let us talk about something we enjoy? Why can't you let the community grow?

 

[Cycle61]

Visa puts a lid on using crypto backed CCs. link

Ouch

 

[Entoptic]

Almost all wrong.

Many stocks give no voting rights and if they do, you better own a large chunk for it to matter.

You can borrow against bitcoin for margin, very easily. Google it.

There are a good number of alt coins that pay "dividends" or reward the holder in some way.

You should look into some of the tech behind some of the alt coins, it is really quite amazing the ideas they are trying to implement or have already started to implement.

The stock market is manipulated to an extent that most of us want to ignore. The cyrpotocurrency market being unregulated is the same or worse. Both "investements" take risk. Betting on a new IPO or company like Amazon or Apple was a very risky move in the early days. Hindsight being 20/20, people that did so heavily, look like fortune tellers. The same can be said about those who mined or bought Bitcoin in 2010. There are many millionaires being made in cryptocurrencies, and many that will lose a good amount.

The bottom line is that crypto trading is very risky, but it has been paying off for many just like the stock market. The crypto markets are new and no one has real insight into what can or will happen. But from the technology that is being "produced" it looks like crypto will be looked at like the internet or computers in the early days and picking the right horse to bet on will net those holding in a big way.

Well said and well informed.

 

[stangmx13]

Bitcoin is gambling. The Stock Market is probably gambling, but it's probably several orders of magnitude safer. And the return is quite a bit less.

IMO, thats really what this convo boils down too.... at what level of risk does gambling become investing

I don't see any "real" conceptual difference btw coin, stocks, or commodities. they are all speculative investments with varying levels of risk. personally im not really a fan of the whole racket of this type of investment, mostly because I don't think it provides enough benefit to our economy or society as a whole. but we all gotta play the game.

 

[jiffy]

Visa puts a lid on using crypto backed CCs. link

From what I gathered Visa shut down one vendor in the space. MasterCard or American Express will be glad to take the business over.

The Centra card lets you hold many different crypto currencies and spend them on a MasterCard. There are many other alternatives like it as well.

 

[Entoptic]

Visa puts a lid on using crypto backed CCs. link

Ouch

That does sting a little.

It's a smart move. Loading crypto onto a gift card and using that as a Visa is illegal if I'm not mistaken and Visa probably doesn't want to be a part of it.

Sad news but imo it was a good move.

 

[Removed 3]

as for stocks, at least you get to read up on their financial statements and the value in what they are producing. the companies get audited so that earnings are not made up and there is a bunch of controls that should prevent another enron from happening again.

i have been reading this thread quite often and what i seem to be picking up is the advice to buy low and to notice when there is a launch in prices. i don't get a feeling that there is an understanding of the cryptocurrencies or coins involved.

 

[Dubbington]

How do you find out when a new coin will hit? I'm going to keep some funds in my CB account hoping the Poloniex will offer the Telegram ICO.

 

[afm199]

I apologize everyone but this is getting old.

Ernie you bring up very interesting points. I had to go back and read this entire thread again. Thanks for the perspective.

My first post #104 corrected someone that had the wrong information about btc. After that I've contributed to helping people understand exchanges, open accounts, talked about different ICOs, which platforms folks they're using, defended this thread against folks like yourself, mentioned CME and CBOE coming into the mix, informed folks of how to handle taxes, listed whalepool's youtube channel, met people outside of barf and even offered up my discord to talk crypto.

Your first post #670 is basically mocking everyone and crypto in general. What have you contributed to this thread? Honestly, what? The only thing I can see is someone that doesn't have shit to do but come in and crap all over everyone. Yea you had a few interactive posts but before you joined the conversation was interactive. Now not so many people converse because negativity has once again entered into another barf thread. I'm not saying you're the only one that had done but you're a part of it. Those same negative people finally ran out of topics to shit on so then they started shitting on people.

Best part is I called you out on it #854, you insulted me, continued it and yet here you are still doing the same thing and someone I'm the fucking victim?

lulz at the victim talk. Your broad statements and constant shitpost are really getting old. Why can't you let us talk about something we enjoy? Why can't you let the community grow?

Be my guest. It's your thread, and you obviously feel strongly about it. I'll bow out and leave it.

PS: My apologies if I came on too strong.