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California has banned generators.

Comcast has battery backup in my area. Using portable gas generators seems like a stopgap solution that would be massively more expensive to operate. I'd also wonder how anyone expects to certify a system for the E911 requirements when it requires sending a bunch people out to plug in generators
 
mbsv said:
If they use portable generators, I wonder why telecoms didn't make any public comment on this topic?

(The public comment is all public record. I read most of it. Nothing from utility companies that I saw. Lots from landscape, RV, timber, tool and engine manufacturers, etc.)

It is kind of interesting that Plain Old Telephony Systems were super reliable partly because of their almost independent, and somewhat centralized, power infrastructure. Lots of big batteries in the CO.


Anyway, you still haven't proposed an alternate solution here to the problem that small engines now produce a huge percentage of nasty pollution. Note that there were some proposed in the comments I reference above; feel free to reference.
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Yes I have. It's way back in the beginning of this thread.

My gripe is about how it didn't consider the poorest of the people though...so there's that.
 
msethhunter said:
Maybe next time before posting some inflammatory bullshit, then backing it up with some random Google shit post images, and saying "I don't know what it's called, but you have no clue", you should ask some questions.

The generators are chained to the ISP utility boxes. They are small generators (like the ones were talking about here) and they only come out when there are threats of turning off the power from the winds. They also don't set them up unless they run them.
They're in neighborhoods, and side streets. The reason they do it is because land lines have a requirement to still work in a power outage and most land lines now are VOIP, so the end user still has to have power routed so they can use their phone to dial 911. These are the kinds of issues that this poorly written law doesn't address.

It looks more like you don't know what you're talking about. Next time you want to post up some shit like this, hit the scroll wheel.
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As previously stated. In my outage that spurred me to buy a Generator, the landline phones went dead on day 3. They were only prepared for 2 days of back up energy apparently. On the 3rd day, most of our city was utterly in the dark and 100% unable to contact emergency services of any kind.

The hospitals had been evacuated, so better try not to have an accident walking around in the dark, old folks.
 
msethhunter said:
Yes I have. It's way back in the beginning of this thread.

My gripe is about how it didn't consider the poorest of the people though...so there's that.
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I just read every comment from you on this thread and didn't see a proposal. Just comments that the current rule is bad in various ways. I agree that it has problems.... but think the official proposed 'solution' might actually work, do you think it will?
 
mbsv said:
I just read every comment from you on this thread and didn't see a proposal. Just comments that the current rule is bad in various ways. I agree that it has problems.... but think the official proposed 'solution' might actually work, do you think it will?
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Two things.

1: I've made comments on what I think isn't right. Like I've told others, extrapolate from that. It's not that hard.

2: What difference does my "proposal" make? Am I some kind of person who the people who matter here actually matter to?

So far all you've managed to do here is make some comment about some vacuum generator (?), and parrot someone else's "well then show us your proposal!"
*folds arms*
*gives creepy AOC stare*
 
msethhunter said:
Two things.

1: I've made comments on what I think isn't right. Like I've told others, extrapolate from that. It's not that hard.

2: What difference does my "proposal" make? Am I some kind of person who the people who matter here actually matter to?

So far all you've managed to do here is make some comment about some vacuum generator (?), and parrot someone else's "well then show us your proposal!"
*folds arms*
*gives creepy AOC stare*
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OK I clearly haven't been successful here. I keep asking people what they think about the actual rules, and while some people understand them, lots are replying to... well I guess the thread title, but not the actual rules they refer to.

Outside of BARF, I actually read the legislation (it's about one page long), the rule making proposal (which is much longer), and participated in the public comment process in a few ways.

So that's why i ask what is your proposal. What would you have said in the public comment process? Don't just rant, how can you make your (legitimate) concerns have some actual impact on helping the people you want to help?
 
I would argue the same as previous: when outlawing one manner of something (power in the case), only have that law take effect in a period AFTER the state itself has mitigated the deficiencies due to the outlawing of certain equipment (practices, etc). A second vote from the legislature once those plans have been fully executed to completion would then begin the phase out period. This is a slower way to act, but a sure way to cover the backside before moving forward on the frontside.
 
mbsv said:
OK I clearly haven't been successful here. I keep asking people what they think about the actual rules, and while some people understand them, lots are replying to... well I guess the thread title, but not the actual rules they refer to.

Outside of BARF, I actually read the legislation (it's about one page long), the rule making proposal (which is much longer), and participated in the public comment process in a few ways.

So that's why i ask what is your proposal. What would you have said in the public comment process? Don't just rant, how can you make your (legitimate) concerns have some actual impact on helping the people you want to help?
Click to expand...

For me, I would suggest that no legislation be allowed to pass requiring alternative power sources be switched to electricity until the electrical infrastructure has been forced to adopt a strict SLA allowing for minimal downtime with a proven record of compliance, and a reliable projection for self sustaining production based on anticipated future need.

i.e. Government should not mandate civilians use a particular service until they provide a concrete assurance that said service will be persistently available and accessible.
 
Still curious which apartment dwellers currently use gas gennies that will be affected by their discontinued sales in a few years.
 
Eldritch said:
For me, I would suggest that no legislation be allowed to pass requiring alternative power sources be switched to electricity until the electrical infrastructure has been forced to adopt a strict SLA allowing for minimal downtime with a proven record of compliance, and a reliable projection for self sustaining production based on anticipated future need.

i.e. Government should not mandate civilians use a particular service until they provide a concrete assurance that said service will be persistently available and accessible.
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Here's the thing.

1) The long term power shutoffs affect a very small percentage of the population. They also largely affect subsidized consumers, many of whom without government funded electrification mandates would probably not have had reliable wired power in the first place. Some of the first places I ever saw solar panels was at desolate ranches in WY and NE.
2) This is not going to make generators disappear overnight, nor make it that difficult for private individuals to continue to get them (e.g., NV, OR, Mex)
3) There are already plans to address the power grid issues, and the issues are different per region. For example, the places phasing out natural gas are not the places having power continuity issues

Of course people use the cheapest and easiest alternatives they can find, and that is in many cases portable generators. Part of the reason they are cheap is because the people using them and the companies selling them are unaccountable for the pollution they produce.

And FWIW, I actually read the resolution which can be found here: https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/board/books/2021/120921/21-13-2res.pdf
A few things of interest:

1) Does not affect emergency service providers, fire protection, and a host of other exclusions (check out page 5)
2) Estimates for increased load on the power grid start at 0.01% and grow to 0.21% after generators get replaced (at least partially) by battery backups
3) Manufacturers (like RV companies) will get credits for zero emission power they can use to offset sales of non-compliant generators. IOW, the solar packages the RV guys already sell can offset and allow them to continue selling generators for the next few years


So much fear and doom and so little reading :|
 
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Its official!
 

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mlm said:
That was they bill they passed in October. It does not contain the specifics. Those are in the link I provided ;)
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The specifics were everything is banned but 0 emissions motors..

July 1st 2022...
 
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buellistic said:
The specifics were everything is banned but 0 emissions motors..

July 1st 2022...
Click to expand...

Except for all the exceptions in the link I provided. But hey, maybe you can post an even older article with more updates!
 
epic snow up here (TONS of it - literally - normally it’s powder, but this stuff is super wet and way heavier than usual). said previously we bit the bullet and got a whole house propane generator (propane is plumbed as a public utility). grid power has been out for coming on 2 days. PG&E sent notice saying due to weather and road conditions they couldn’t get their crews in, so had no ETA for power to be restored. 3 neighbors ran out of gas for their portable generators, got super cold and had to bug out (one got stuck and had to dig out - which was freaky - almost lost it down a steep ravine - but finally made it). they all asked us to keep an eye on their properties and let them know if their houses get hit. trees have been going down, and big limbs have been falling like crazy due to the weight of the snow. we’ve already lost 2 massive oaks (full on toppled over), and praying we don’t lose more. it’s biblical.
 
littlebeast said:
epic snow up here (TONS of it - literally - normally it’s powder, but this stuff is super wet and way heavier than usual). said previously we bit the bullet and got a whole house propane generator (propane is plumbed as a public utility). grid power has been out for coming on 2 days. PG&E sent notice saying due to weather and road conditions they couldn’t get their crews in, so had no ETA for power to be restored. 3 neighbors ran out of gas for their portable generators, got super cold and had to bug out (one got stuck and had to dig out - which was freaky - almost lost it down a steep ravine - but finally made it). they all asked us to keep an eye on their properties and let them know if their houses get hit. trees have been going down, and big limbs have been falling like crazy due to the weight of the snow. we’ve already lost 2 massive oaks (full on toppled over), and praying we don’t lose more. it’s biblical.
Click to expand...

We are in the same boat. Crap ton of wet heavy snow. I woke up at 3am on Monday morning to the sounds of oaks breaking and falling. Took the wife, kid, two dogs and cat to sleep in the basement bedroom. Woke up to an absolute shit show on our property. Wife’s car was narrowly missed by a big branch. My neighbors driveway was completely blocked by two large pines. He is stuck at work in Truckee but his elderly mother is staying with him for Christmas so I grabbed my saw and cleared the driveway for her. We are on day 3 with no power but the generator we use for our trailer does a good job of running our heater and some lights. We can shower and cook in our travel trailer. Although I don’t want to stay in it…a tin can doesn’t feel very safe when big oaks are falling. As LB said there is no time for power restoration. We will be lucky if it’s by the end of the week. I’m glad I don’t have to rely on solar and battery packs during these situations. PG&E and the sun are not reliable when the shit hits the fan.

As I write this, it’s still snowing. I found a local cafe with heat, internet, bottomless coffee and pastries, it’s my office for now.
 
I feel for you LB and Ridley. It isn't snow but when hurricanes hit some of the same stuff happens. Trees down, roads impassable and electricity out for days. In 2020 we were without power for two 6 day periods you get very inventive when it comes to cooking. We weren't cold but damn heat can be almost as bad but luckily we had our generator and I had stockpiled enough gas to get us through until some of the bigger less damaged towns got power back and I could replenish. I also planned ahead and our water heater and stove run off propane so even with a small generator I could have enough juice for hot water and we can light the stove with matches and cook. I really wish we had gas lines to our house but we run off a 200 gallon tank so a whole house with gas was not feasible. Oak trees get damaged so easily I can't tell you how many full size trees I have seen laid over with root ball exposed after a cane.

Stay safe and warm.
 
@littlebeast and ridley

What elevation are you at?

I have a place in Calaveras County @ about 2800' and the power went out Monday plus I no longer have a neighbor to keep a eye on my place so I am kind of stressing until I can get back up there
 
Grissom I’m at 2,200’.

I realize it may sound like I’m complaining but I am not. I actually enjoy these conditions and the challenges they present. I love the snow, just so much more to do with it in it than rain…I do hate rain.
 
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