Dakar Rally time again

[WoodsChick]

Sadly, the American viewership isn't great. Part of that is, of course, that the coverage here is crap.

Yep. That, and we have one (1) rider there from the US. Out of 167 riders. Ricky Brabec is currently sitting in 22nd position, 1h49m back of the leader.

We would probably have more of an interested audience if we actually had rallies here in the US, too, but it's pretty much impossible to do what is allowed in Africa, South America, Australia, etc. The closest we have is the B1K, which isn't even a rally.

There was a lot of buzz here in the US when Kurt Caselli rode the Dakar in 2013. It was great to know we had a rider that could actually win once he got the whole navigation thing down. I had high hopes for 2014, which of course came crashing down when Kurt lost his life in the B1K at the end of 2013

Still, if one is interested there is a lot of coverage out there, you just have to go looking for it. It helps to speak French and Spanish

EDIT: Mischa's Dakar Tracker is way better than Dakar's official page if you want to follow the actual race in real time. http://trackingdakar.nl/overall.php
RallyChick

 

[WoodsChick]

10 minutes of real life at Dakar. The end of this has some coverage of David Thomas's evacuation due to his broken leg. It made me squirm. I know all too well how painful that is, but I can't imagine adding the pain of not finishing the Dakar on top of it all…


[youtube]u994SlOmcu4[/youtube]




WC

 

[boney]

Truck awesomeness! (not from this year...)

[youtube]--J947HxQVM[/youtube]

 

[boney]

Laia Sanz is on Facepage and is pretty good at posting updates when not Rallying. And she's bad-ass!

 

[WoodsChick]

Laia Sanz is on Facepage and is pretty good at posting updates when not Rallying. And she's bad-ass!

The baddest assest! She is totally my girl crush, but don't tell anyone, ok?
I would absolutely kill to be her size with a tenth of her talent and skill…





OldShortTalentlessChick

 

[RightCoastBias]

Toby Price is apparently suffering from seziures after his crash.

http://www.tp87.com.au/portfolio-posts/dakar-rally-injury-recap/

 

[psychocandy]

Robby bailed this year, he was all grumpy last year calling out conspiracies in the judging. So he didn't come back.

Much as I hate Robbie Gordon, it's hard to argue this. I mean, Peterhansel has blatantly bumped & pushed aside motorcycles to gain seconds with no penalty.

Only following the Dakar casually, there's plenty of stories of rather capricious awarding of penalties.

Anistasiya Nifontova has her Husky in 82nd at 7h57m back.

Rosa Romero Font (Nani Roma's wife) is in 93rd at 9h19m off the pace.

Re: Romero-Font, did not know that she is Nany Roma's wife.

Re: Nifontova, there's a bit of controversy around her since the FIM "provisionally" suspended her due to allegations of blood doping. I think according to one article I read online it wasn't really known until the last minute whether she'd be allowed to compete.

mad

Thanks a lot, HRC! Now I love me some Pablo Quintanilla on his gleaming Husqvarna, but I was pretty excited to see Barreda riding wicked fast and relatively clean (compared to other years, anyway) only to have HRC pull a bone-headed move and hand all their riders an almost insurmountable 1-hour penalty! They're lucky it wasn't the full 3-hour penalty! I think this was Barreda's race for the taking after Price went down with the broken femur. Now? I'm pretty sure it would take a fucking miracle. Honda really needs to get to the root of their management mystery problem and solve it before Honda pulls all their funding.

Man, that pic of Barreda Bort is heartbreaking. I don't know why, but the years he's been competing in the Dakar, I've been really rooting for him. After the big disappointment of last year (with Despres & Coma moving one), I figured this could be his year. He's just had some bad luck.

I was wondering if the penalty would be more fuel for the conspiracy fire. But I didn't realize it was levied against the whole HRC team. Any more details on what the deal was here?

 

[Lucky Jones]

How about this?

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/dakar-rider-hit-by-lightning-finishes-race-anyway-1790796069

Well, the stage anyway.

 

[Lucky Jones]

Man, that pic of Barreda Bort is heartbreaking. I don't know why, but the years he's been competing in the Dakar, I've been really rooting for him. After the big disappointment of last year (with Despres & Coma moving one), I figured this could be his year. He's just had some bad luck.

I was wondering if the penalty would be more fuel for the conspiracy fire. But I didn't realize it was levied against the whole HRC team. Any more details on what the deal was here?

There's a little more detail about it here:

http://world.honda.com/Rally/Dakar/2017/dakar-stage05/race/

Might just have been a GPS error?

Sucks for Barreda, he's the dude I've been rooting for the last few Dakars.

 

[boney]

Much as I hate Robbie Gordon, it's hard to argue this. I mean, Peterhansel has blatantly bumped & pushed aside motorcycles to gain seconds with no penalty.

Only following the Dakar casually, there's plenty of stories of rather capricious awarding of penalties.

Sometimes I feel like the Dakar is going the way of (American) Football. So many rules, one for each time someone was creative and gained from it, that it's being strangled by penalties and rules. If you need gas for whatever reason, why should it cost you an hour to get some? Maybe your gas tank sprang a leak? Know what I mean?

Also, to the other point of Toby Price; maybe again, the Dakar is trying too hard to homologise (is that a word? am I using the right one?) the sport so much that there is no longer the ability to build a better machine, one must be a better racer and/or take bigger risks to compete. They all ride the same displacement engine, with the same size throttle body, with the same tires and mousse. And that put the racers at greater risk of severe injury in my opinion. Ride fast, take chances. NASCAR got boring and became a soap-opera-on-wheels because they all drive the same car.

Obviously on a race as long as Dakar there will be some riders who have the advantage in skill in some places while other have it elsewhere, but still, the rules and the penalties levied for some dumb things like "getting gas outside of an allowed area" are kind of lame.

On the thought of the organizers playing favorites. Sure, I get it, but how do you "see" everything that happens out there? Should they all be required to run dash-cams and all that other stuff? I think no, they should have less rules and in doing so will return more sportsmanship to the race.

 

[RightCoastBias]

Sometimes I feel like the Dakar is going the way of (American) Football. So many rules, one for each time someone was creative and gained from it, that it's being strangled by penalties and rules. If you need gas for whatever reason, why should it cost you an hour to get some? Maybe your gas tank sprang a leak? Know what I mean?

Also, to the other point of Toby Price; maybe again, the Dakar is trying too hard to homologise (is that a word? am I using the right one?) the sport so much that there is no longer the ability to build a better machine, one must be a better racer and/or take bigger risks to compete. They all ride the same displacement engine, with the same size throttle body, with the same tires and mousse. And that put the racers at greater risk of severe injury in my opinion. Ride fast, take chances. NASCAR got boring and became a soap-opera-on-wheels because they all drive the same car.

Obviously on a race as long as Dakar there will be some riders who have the advantage in skill in some places while other have it elsewhere, but still, the rules and the penalties levied for some dumb things like "getting gas outside of an allowed area" are kind of lame.

On the thought of the organizers playing favorites. Sure, I get it, but how do you "see" everything that happens out there? Should they all be required to run dash-cams and all that other stuff? I think no, they should have less rules and in doing so will return more sportsmanship to the race.

It seems from the outside that the Dakar is not run as well as it could be. Lots of riders complaint about the road books, lots of rules people don't know they're breaking and so on.

But, part of the Dakar Rally is survival of man and machine, not just who is fastest. But who can preserve tires, fuel, mental energy and the like to finish a day of riding that would likely put most of us in a hospital.

I think the reason they limit fuel to certain areas, as an example, is to level the playing field for those who do not have a multi million dollar Moto company behind them and to level the field among those Moto companies. It's the same thing GP is doing with software, tires and the like.

I do not see Dakar as trying to homogenize the bikes, but put limits due to safety. They used to run big ass bikes out there that were clicking off 100+ MPH through the desert. So they dropped everything down to 450s.

There is also many levels of support from factory teams. Toby Price and a few others will get to tier support. All other KTM riders are expected to give those few tires, bikes, fuel and whatever else they need, in sacrifice of their own race. If you're not one of the few, you're racing until you're a glorified support rider.

 

[WoodsChick]

On the subject of the entire HRC team being penalized for fuel, it comes down to knowing the rules, and following them. Honda was trying to gain an advantage by not fueling up all the way, thereby keeping the bikes light for the special. They obviously did not realize the fueling station they used was not allowed, as there was no attempt to hide their usage. It was a station that all the service vehicles were using, and they were seen by many people. It was during a "neutralized" section of the course that was not timed, but was still part of the race course…not a liaison. The full penalty is 3 hours, but it was deemed to be a mistake on their part, and not an intentional act of cheating, so they were all assessed a 1-hour penalty. I do believe KTM is appealing that decision and is wanting the full 3 hours. I don't know what the issue is, but HRC's leadership has not exactly been on point since they returned to the Dakar a few years ago. Bike reliability, subpar knowledge of the rules, bad decision-making…just not what one would expect from a top-flight factory team effort.
I was really hoping this would be Barreda's year. He has a tremendous amount of raw talent, and he seems to finally be maturing a bit and getting a handle on just what it takes to win a Dakar. Thanks to HRC's management, he will probably not be getting that opportunity this year.


WC

 

[SFMCjohn]

Sometimes I feel like the Dakar is going the way of (American) Football. So many rules, one for each time someone was creative and gained from it, that it's being strangled by penalties and rules.

...

On the thought of the organizers playing favorites. Sure, I get it, but how do you "see" everything that happens out there? Should they all be required to run dash-cams and all that other stuff? I think no, they should have less rules and in doing so will return more sportsmanship to the race.

It's fun to think about ... I just love the story about Honda
offering support for 250cc air-cooled two-valve four-stroke
singles and that something like 15 finished in 1979
in a race that started in Paris and finished in Africa ... talk about
simple ... arty

They had an early-'80s Dakar BMW racebike in "The Art of the Motorcycle" show
back in 1998 ... such a cool motorcycle with its huge tank ...
how about the scooter guys
who used to race with 12" tires, ha. Certainly a
different race with the 450cc homologise-ed modern Dakar ...

... I suspect that the road book could be used as a way to
change the emphasis of the Dakar, and slow the racers ...
think I read that the last Dakar
Marc Coma won, he navigated to the
overall championship without a single stage win ...?

... the people who organize this massive undertaking
every year will say they don't want everyone to
finish ... I can't really make sense of some of the decisions
they make rules-wise, unless I take a big step back
and think about the chaos of the day-to-day circus
and their first-principle that less than half the starters
are expected to finish ...

(eg, I think the org was presented with a protest that the
Honda Team violated some fuel-rule and the org resolved
it quickly by sticking some front-runners with an hour
penalty to see who would quit the race with a finger
sprain ... )

... interesting that Chile and Peru did not
want to be included in the Dakar course this year ...?

 

[WoodsChick]

Regarding road books and obscure rules… It is everyone's responsibility to know the rules. Period. I feel for the top-tier riders that got screwed by a confusing marking in their road book, I really do. But when a rookie rider in 82nd place comes along, sees all the tracks going that way, but she decides to go this way because that is what her road book tells her, and she ends up getting it right, well…I don't really know how to justify the outrage due to a faulty road book. I heard something about the ASO admitting it was not as clear as it could be, and I don't know if that's true or not, but the fact is lots of riders got it right. In the grand scheme of things, I'm really surprised the Dakar comes off as smoothly as it does, considering the mind-boggling logistics of the race. It really is an incredible accomplishment.


Going down to 450cc's across the board keeps the costs down, and thus makes it easier for more riders to enter the race. Interesting point about making it more dangerous for the riders, boney. You may be right. On the other hand, I can't imagine racers of this caliber duking it out on 750cc twins or giant BMW's these days. I'm surprised more riders didn't die back in those days!




RallyFanChick

 

[WoodsChick]

... I suspect that the road book could be used as a way to
change the emphasis of the Dakar, and slow the racers ...
think I read that the last Dakar
Marc Coma won, he navigated to the
overall championship without a single stage win ...?



(eg, I think the org was presented with a protest that the
Honda Team violated some fuel-rule and the org resolved
it quickly by sticking some front-runners with an hour
penalty to see who would quit the race with a finger
sprain ... )

... interesting that Chile and Peru did not
want to be included in the Dakar course this year ...?

Ahh…the "Coma Way." Anyone remember who won the stages that year? No? Exactly. Because the stage wins don't matter. Coma is nothing if not a brilliant strategist. He rarely opened the stages. He had enough speed and skill to comfortably stay behind the guys fighting for the lead, thus saving himself from having to make the way. He did just enough to win. I personally thought he was a bit of a jerk but I do miss following him in the rallies.


I'm pretty sure the Peru/Chile/Ecuador thing was environmental in nature.
Yet another reason why viewership->interest->participation->success is absent for Americans…can you imagine the absolute outrage by Sierra Club, Native Plant Society, etc. were we to have a Dakar-like rally here in the states? Hell, we can't even get a permit to hold a national enduro at Clear Creek, fer crissakes…




WC

 

[SFMCjohn]

Hell, we can't even get a permit to hold a national enduro at Clear Creek, fer crissakes…

WC

+1!
... a historic Enduro held at a superfund site ...
asbestos, forsooth ...

... in other news:

1
009 - RICKY BRABEC (USA)
HONDA
2h02m05s +00:00:00 --:--:--
2
017 - PAULO GONCALVES (PRT)
HONDA
2h03m49s +00:01:44 --:--:--
3
014 - SAM SUNDERLAND (GBR)
KTM
2h06m48s +00:04:43 --:--:--
4
011 - JOAN BARREDA BORT (ESP)
HONDA
2h08m56s +00:06:51 --:--:--
5
023 - XAVIER DE SOULTRAIT (FRA)
YAMAHA
2h09m15s +00:07:10 --:--:--

... a stage win for Honda and the USA's Mr. B?

 

[WoodsChick]

... a stage win for Honda and the USA's Mr. B?

Yes! 4 of the top 6 finishers of Stage 7 were the HRC riders. Guess they're riding as if they have nothing to lose. Gonçalves and Barreda have moved into 8th and 9th in the overall standings. The real heartbreaker of this? Barreda is 1h1m behind the leader overall Makes that 1 hour penalty seem rather important now, doesn't

WC

 

[TTTom]

Much as I hate Robbie Gordon, it's hard to argue this. I mean, Peterhansel has blatantly bumped & pushed aside motorcycles to gain seconds with no penalty.

Only following the Dakar casually, there's plenty of stories of rather capricious awarding of penalties.

Two years ago Peterhansel was caught getting gas outside the designated refueling zone exactly like the Honda riders. No penalty was assessed so it sure seems like some pigs are more equal than others, or they have better passports or sponsors or something.

On a more upbeat note Ricky Brabec took the stage win today.

 

[SFMCjohn]

Yes! 4 of the top 6 finishers of Stage 7 were the HRC riders. Guess they're riding as if they have nothing to lose. Gonçalves and Barreda have moved into 8th and 9th in the overall standings. The real heartbreaker of this? Barreda is 1h1m behind the leader overall Makes that 1 hour penalty seem rather important now, doesn't

WC

... Honda unleashed the dogs of war, for sure ...

... we'll see, I'm still hopeful for Honda and
Bam Bam Barreda ...
still a lot of navigation and racing to go ...
what a story if
Honda is able to overcome the
hour penalties ... arty
(KTM certainly seems worried about Honda's
chances this year, with their appeal
for a THREE-hour fuel penalty ...)

... I'll be proud of JBB if he hangs in
there and finishes the race ...

 

[SFMCjohn]

Ahh…the "Coma Way." Anyone remember who won the stages that year?

Joan Barreda Bort won five stages in 2014,
but still would have been second to Coma ...

Coma did win two stages in 2014 ...
it was 2006 (in Africa) that he won the overall (Coma's first
Dakar win of five total) without also
scoring a stage win ... and I don't recall who
won the stages in 2006 ...

In 2014, JBB finished 7th after a crash/bike problems on the
second to last stage (and navigation problems on
the 4th & 5th stages) ... maybe the first year
he rode for Honda ...?

... Mr. Poskitt is in second now in Malle Moto
after Malle Moto leader, Mr. Kozac, was seen being towed
on the first day of the marathon stage ...?

#9 - Ricky Brabec [HONDA]