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Dead Gixxer...

It's not your sister's fault that your bike is a pos. Give her a break. Nothing she could have done (without taking off the seat and grabbing a large screwdriver) that would cause a complete electrical failure. Sounds like the ignition switch could have failed if it's not the battery, connections, or main fuse.
 
Connie, I have a Voltage Meter and Extra Battery for my 06. Holla if you need help
 
latrlg's said:
Let us know what the diagnosis is.........:(
Click to expand...

Starter relay is fried. There's also burned wiring on the side... can't remember what the part is, but it's definitely got to be replaced, too. Fuses and battery are fine.

DirtyD said:
It's not your sister's fault that your bike is a pos. Give her a break. Nothing she could have done (without taking off the seat and grabbing a large screwdriver) that would cause a complete electrical failure. Sounds like the ignition switch could have failed if it's not the battery, connections, or main fuse.
Click to expand...

Step back, Dude. Don't call my bike a piece of shit. I maintain my bike, take care of my bike, and it's in better condition than bikes with half the mileage and half the years. Do a leakdown test on yours, I guarantee it won't have percentages as low as mine.:|
 
jayr7309 said:
Connie, I have a Voltage Meter and Extra Battery for my 06. Holla if you need help
Click to expand...


How are you at wiring?? :teeth Thanks for the offers, you're a doll! Looks like Dave is going to help me out with putting it to rights! :)
 
Gixxergirl1000 said:
Step back, Dude. Don't call my bike a piece of shit. I maintain my bike, take care of my bike, and it's in better condition than bikes with half the mileage and half the years. Do a leakdown test on yours, I guarantee it won't have percentages as low as mine.:|
Click to expand...

should have bought a honda:twofinger
 
Gixxergirl1000 said:
she spent years as a lead vocalist for a punk band... draw your own conclusions... :laughing
Click to expand...
Well, we can conclude that she's deaf, but we still don't know if she's hawt! :twofinger

Oh, and since this is the Garage, I'll try at least some technical contribution. Even if it's not on target based on the latest results. It sounds like you initially tried to reset the ECU by disconnecting the battery. At least for a car I had, that could take quite a while if you just waited. There was a good method to accelerate it. Might also work for a bike. After disconnecting the battery, it would reset very quickly if you stepped on the brake. I believe it had something to do with it trying to draw power for the brake light. I never completely understood it, but it did indeed work. I could reset the ECU in something like 30 seconds this way.
 
Details for the enquiring minds:

- Relevant fuses check out good (2 -- a 30 Amp on the starter relay assembly and a 10 Amp in the fuse box)

- Behavior is the same with fuses replaced.

- I did not find any fusible links.

- The battery was disconnected at the positive terminal for periods ranging from 30 s to 30 min. with no change in behavior.

- The battery says about 12.7 V, disconnected from everything (and not running, obviously)

- Per the shop manual test the starter relay checks out as bad. I.e. no continuity through the switched circuit when 12 V is passed through the appropriate switching contacts.

- The starter relay assembly -- AFAI can tell -- also doubles as an 'integrated junction box' for the wiring that supplies electricity to the rest of the bike. (I'm not 100% certain on that as I haven't studied the wiring diagram yet.) So, there are 6 wires coming out of it and it has a 30 Amp fuse.

- 'No nothing coming on' means nothing showing on the gauges when the key is turned to 'on'; no lights at all, no elements darkened for any of the LCDs.

- The headlights are not wired up. (Last ride for the bike was at the track.)

- The rear tail light assembly is an integrated LED jobby, aftermarket I believe and installed by the PO. At purchase time it worked properly but at some time after that one rear turn signal ceased to operate.

- The regulator / rectifier checks out as good with the multi-way diode test. (Does that test have a name?)

- The connector from the regulator to the harness is toast along with an inch-ish of wiring from the connector. Both halves of the connector are brittle and one half has missing chunks. Upon disconnecting the regulator at the connector the worse half (the half on the harness) partially disintegrated and the contacts fell out from their normal places.

- Two smaller wires appear to have been placed into or built into the worse half of the connector -- wire in addition to the normal 5 (the 3 from the stator and 2 to the bike). I'm not sure what they go to yet but they were broken by the time I had disconnected the regulator.

--------

Thoughts:

Maybe there was some shortcut performed when the tail lights were installed that over time cooked the connector and eventually resulted in an intermittent short that somehow damaged the starter relay assembly. This would be more believable if the starter relay assy has some electronic components inside such as diodes, etc. If the two unidentified wires *should* have been in the connector like they seem to have been it's possible that one or both of these is necessary for the bike to run and maybe one or both of them fried before today.

I didn't think about slapping the relay. I'll give it a go, but right now I'm guessing there's a fried component inside it if the problem isn't simply at the fried connector.

I think that momentary (prolly about 1 s) was just the final straw of using that sent it over the edge.

I think Sister did her a huge favor 'cause this could have failed way out of town somewhere and diagnosing and/or repairing it on the road would have been tough-to-impossible.

Oh yeah, Sister is indeed hawt too. I saw the pics. :party
 
have you checked voltage at the fuse box?

maybe install the battery, remove all fuses and check voltage across the fuse clips.

Also check the negative cable of the battery to make sure it is properly grounded.

good luck:thumbup
 
Did the battery get load tested? So the relay has a dead short? The lights should still come on I would think.
 
DirtyD said:
It's not your sister's fault that your bike is a pos. Give her a break. Nothing she could have done (without taking off the seat and grabbing a large screwdriver) that would cause a complete electrical failure. Sounds like the ignition switch could have failed if it's not the battery, connections, or main fuse.
Click to expand...

Does "D" stand for "douchebag?" Because that's what you're coming across as. :rolleyes
 
Marlowe said:
Pics were posted in the sink a few months back, for those of you that weren't paying attention :p

Connie, let us know how it went...and buy that skeeter a beer! :thumbup
Click to expand...

thread title/subject/keywords please

mosquito said:
Details for the enquiring minds:

- Relevant fuses check out good (2 -- a 30 Amp on the starter relay assembly and a 10 Amp in the fuse box)

- Behavior is the same with fuses replaced.

- I did not find any fusible links.

- The battery was disconnected at the positive terminal for periods ranging from 30 s to 30 min. with no change in behavior.

- The battery says about 12.7 V, disconnected from everything (and not running, obviously)

- Per the shop manual test the starter relay checks out as bad. I.e. no continuity through the switched circuit when 12 V is passed through the appropriate switching contacts.

- The starter relay assembly -- AFAI can tell -- also doubles as an 'integrated junction box' for the wiring that supplies electricity to the rest of the bike. (I'm not 100% certain on that as I haven't studied the wiring diagram yet.) So, there are 6 wires coming out of it and it has a 30 Amp fuse.

- 'No nothing coming on' means nothing showing on the gauges when the key is turned to 'on'; no lights at all, no elements darkened for any of the LCDs.

- The headlights are not wired up. (Last ride for the bike was at the track.)

- The rear tail light assembly is an integrated LED jobby, aftermarket I believe and installed by the PO. At purchase time it worked properly but at some time after that one rear turn signal ceased to operate.

- The regulator / rectifier checks out as good with the multi-way diode test. (Does that test have a name?)

- The connector from the regulator to the harness is toast along with an inch-ish of wiring from the connector. Both halves of the connector are brittle and one half has missing chunks. Upon disconnecting the regulator at the connector the worse half (the half on the harness) partially disintegrated and the contacts fell out from their normal places.

- Two smaller wires appear to have been placed into or built into the worse half of the connector -- wire in addition to the normal 5 (the 3 from the stator and 2 to the bike). I'm not sure what they go to yet but they were broken by the time I had disconnected the regulator.


Oh yeah, Sister is indeed hawt too. I saw the pics. :party
Click to expand...
PICS!

ther reg/rec plug got corroded at some point, resistance builds due to said corrosion generating heat in the connector which melts the connector and accelerates the aging making brittle. charging voltage also drops due to said resistance and slowly the battery dies. the corroded connector seems to be a common problem across every brand to some extent. there is a strong argument for chopping out that connector and soldering the appropriate wires together.

load test the battery

as far as those extra wires go, chase those suckers down and hack them out if they're not needed. rats nest wiring suckssssss in a big way.
 
Wow, that much damage? How long did she seize the starter for, I got the impression it was a second or two.

I'm thinking there are two possibilities here:

Option 1 -- Worst Case)

If there was enough current to toast the starter relay, with the starter seized, there's a very good chance you burned the windings in the starter motor itself.

Might be good to check continuity through the starter as it stands right now (hopefully still in the position it was in), as well as several other positions to see if this is the case.

If so, you'll be looking at a new starter too while you're hunting down parts. It could be rewound but doing this is very labor intensive and it's usually cheaper to salvage one up.

Option Two -- Pre-existing main harness damage)

Now, if this burned due to corrosion or high resistance through the starter relay, because of something halfassed the PO did, then you might just need to replace those portions of the harness and starter relay, presuming everything else is intact. Testing the starter itself should tell you.
 
mosquito said:
Details for the enquiring minds:

snip

- The regulator / rectifier checks out as good with the multi-way diode test. (Does that test have a name?)

- The connector from the regulator to the harness is toast along with an inch-ish of wiring from the connector. Both halves of the connector are brittle and one half has missing chunks. Upon disconnecting the regulator at the connector the worse half (the half on the harness) partially disintegrated and the contacts fell out from their normal places.

- Two smaller wires appear to have been placed into or built into the worse half of the connector -- wire in addition to the normal 5 (the 3 from the stator and 2 to the bike). I'm not sure what they go to yet but they were broken by the time I had disconnected the regulator.

:party
Click to expand...

If the connector to the regulator is bad and melted as you describe then my bet is the regulator failed.

You need to get the bike started and test the output of the regulator and the input to the regulator to make sure they are correct. My bet is they are not.

Next I suspect you will find something failed in the interconnect box that distributes all the switch 12v from the starter relay.

In many bikes, the electrical system drops off all the non-required electrical systems (lights mainly) when the starter is engaged. This allows the battery power to be directed to running the fuel pump, ignition, fuel injection and the starter.

The place this all happens is in the interconnect box on the starter relay and this is not always done with mechanical relays but often with semiconductor switches (SCRs) instead.

Your screwed up regulator could have burned out these semiconductor switches.

More than likely the initial failure was a bad ground circuit because that is what usually does this sort of crap and most amateurs don't understand how the ground circuit works so they don't see that failure nor know how to check it out.

Long and the short of it is you need to take this bike to someone that KNOWS motorcycle electrical systems and have EVERYTHING checked out by someone that really knows their shit. Not some backyard hacks taking guesses.

If you were in the south bay or if you wanted to bring it to the south bay I would do it for you for free.
 
auntiebling said:
... there is a strong argument for chopping out that connector and soldering the appropriate wires together.

load test the battery

as far as those extra wires go, chase those suckers down and hack them out if they're not needed. rats nest wiring suckssssss in a big way.
Click to expand...

Right now I'm suspecting it's not the battery, but once the wiring and components are sorted it may come back to that. The connector definitely needs to be replaced.


Marlowe said:
Wow, that much damage? How long did she seize the starter for, I got the impression it was a second or two.

I'm thinking there are two possibilities here:

Option 1 -- Worst Case)

...

Option Two -- Pre-existing main harness damage)

...
Click to expand...

Ahh, good points. Thanks.

As I understand it the starter button was depressed for about a second only and behavior during that time was totally normal. It simply hadn't started yet when Sister's thumb slipped off the button. The amount and manner of damage at the connector looks like there's been a long-time problem there. Right now I'm hoping the current issue is just at the connector and the relay assy.


motomania2007 said:
If the connector to the regulator is bad and melted as you describe then my bet is the regulator failed.

You need to get the bike started and test the output of the regulator and the input to the regulator to make sure they are correct. My bet is they are not.

Next I suspect you will find something failed in the interconnect box that distributes all the switch 12v from the starter relay.

In many bikes, the electrical system drops off all the non-required electrical systems (lights mainly) when the starter is engaged. This allows the battery power to be directed to running the fuel pump, ignition, fuel injection and the starter.

The place this all happens is in the interconnect box on the starter relay and this is not always done with mechanical relays but often with semiconductor switches (SCRs) instead.

Your screwed up regulator could have burned out these semiconductor switches.

More than likely the initial failure was a bad ground circuit because that is what usually does this sort of crap and most amateurs don't understand how the ground circuit works so they don't see that failure nor know how to check it out.

Long and the short of it is you need to take this bike to someone that KNOWS motorcycle electrical systems and have EVERYTHING checked out by someone that really knows their shit. Not some backyard hacks taking guesses.

If you were in the south bay or if you wanted to bring it to the south bay I would do it for you for free.
Click to expand...

Yep, in addition to the starter relay assembly I'm afraid the regulator is bad too, but like you say the wiring needs to be sorted and the bike needs to get started to further diagnose.

I will certainly claim the limits of my knowledge and expertise. Feel free to work out something better for the OP.
 
You should see his light sabre.
 
Sure load testing the battery is a good thing, but if you are getting 12V at both terminals as it sits you should at least have lights. Until you have that, load testing the battery will do nothing but waste time since the current can't get where you want it anyway.

Are you using a multimeter to test this stuff or just a continuity light? You should be able to put the negative of the multimeter on the negative lead and trace out the power until you get to a relay at the very least. Then use Ohm to test on the other side of the relay to make sure you have no resistance.

Oh, and fuses need to be tested with an Ohm meter. You can't trust a visual inspection. Make sure when you are testing you are not physically touching the contacts of the fuse or leads of the meter as you can conduct electricity enough to throw the reading off.

You should also go ahead and wire up the lights. It could be something other than an electrical path like ECU got fried or something but power will still bring the lights on. It's all about a process of elimination. :thumbup

Of course there's all the damage that you already see....
 
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